Helen Zille

Helen Zille may have stepped down as the Premier of the Western Cape after two five-year terms and retired from politics, but she is nowhere close to slowing down. She's still right in the thick of continuing to make and get involved in societal change for the better. She chats to Gareth about her new position at the South African Institute of Race Relations (IRR) as a senior policy fellow, and how she's navigating these tricky times we're in. No topic is left untouched, from victimhood culture, why she reckons 'wokeness' is about white people, Twitter, who she stills keeps up with at the Democratic Alliance (DA), and why she believes the most dangerous people in society are the ones who think they've found the truth. www.cliffcentral.com