Judaism vs. Zionism: Why supporting Palestine IS Jewish with Joseph Dana
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Disclaimer: This episode contains personal opinions and perspectives on complex geopolitical issues. These views are shared as part of an exploration of the psychological and emotional dimensions of identity, trauma, and human connection. This conversation is meant to provoke thought and empathy.
Joseph Dana returns for a profound conversation about his recent piece "When But Becomes Now: The Unraveling of American Jewish Denial." After receiving a three-word email from a family member - "It's genocide now" - Joseph explores what this shift means for Jewish identity and our relationship to Zionism.
We dive deep into the manufactured equation that has dominated Jewish life for 150 years: that questioning Israel equals betraying your people. Joseph traces how Zionist leaders like Jabotinsky literally described Jews as "ugly" and "disgusting," seeking to replace Jewish identity with European nationalism. We explore Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro's argument that Zionism is fundamentally antisemitic, designed to destroy traditional Jewish life centered on Torah and mitzvot.
This conversation examines the emotional blackmail that has silenced Jewish moral voices, the way Israel claims to represent all Jews while conducting genocide, and why supporting Palestinian liberation isn't despite our Jewish values - but as their fullest expression. We discuss the financial and geopolitical interests keeping this system in place and why distinguishing Judaism from Zionism isn't academic but urgently necessary for Jewish survival.
References:
When But Becomes Now: The Unraveling of American Jewish Denial: https://josephdana.substack.com/p/when-but-becomes-now-the-unraveling
The weight of history: How Holocaust trauma shapes Jewish responses to Israel: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3E1cyYzNFTn72PP39qfOoX?si=532c15c85b7e45a7
Follow Joseph Dana
Substack: https://substack.com/@ibnezra
Website: https://www.josephdana.org/about
Twitter: https://x.com/ibnezra?lang=en
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ibnezra/reels/
Follow Carly on:
Website: https://onthecouchwithcarly.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfBi56xQookfRGL3zvWVzCg
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/onthecouchwithcarly/?hl=en
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/onthecouchwithcarly/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@onthecouchwithcarly
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/on-the-couch-with-carly/id1497585376
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3t7A2FMnISQ2fz9D5p0Xuw
Joseph Dana returns for a profound conversation about his recent piece "When But Becomes Now: The Unraveling of American Jewish Denial." After receiving a three-word email from a family member - "It's genocide now" - Joseph explores what this shift means for Jewish identity and our relationship to Zionism.
We dive deep into the manufactured equation that has dominated Jewish life for 150 years: that questioning Israel equals betraying your people. Joseph traces how Zionist leaders like Jabotinsky literally described Jews as "ugly" and "disgusting," seeking to replace Jewish identity with European nationalism. We explore Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro's argument that Zionism is fundamentally antisemitic, designed to destroy traditional Jewish life centered on Torah and mitzvot.
This conversation examines the emotional blackmail that has silenced Jewish moral voices, the way Israel claims to represent all Jews while conducting genocide, and why supporting Palestinian liberation isn't despite our Jewish values - but as their fullest expression. We discuss the financial and geopolitical interests keeping this system in place and why distinguishing Judaism from Zionism isn't academic but urgently necessary for Jewish survival.
References:
When But Becomes Now: The Unraveling of American Jewish Denial: https://josephdana.substack.com/p/when-but-becomes-now-the-unraveling
The weight of history: How Holocaust trauma shapes Jewish responses to Israel: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3E1cyYzNFTn72PP39qfOoX?si=532c15c85b7e45a7
Follow Joseph Dana
Substack: https://substack.com/@ibnezra
Website: https://www.josephdana.org/about
Twitter: https://x.com/ibnezra?lang=en
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ibnezra/reels/
Follow Carly on:
Website: https://onthecouchwithcarly.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfBi56xQookfRGL3zvWVzCg
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/onthecouchwithcarly/?hl=en
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/onthecouchwithcarly/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@onthecouchwithcarly
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/on-the-couch-with-carly/id1497585376
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3t7A2FMnISQ2fz9D5p0Xuw
Chapters
- 00:40 Introduction to
- 02:04 Family member's email:
- 04:08 American Jewish identity deeply tied to Zionism and Israel
- 05:15 Breaking free from cognitive dissonance opens deeper conversations
- 09:14 Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro's religious perspective on Judaism vs Zionism
- 10:50 Judaism as religion defined by Torah and mitzvot, not territory
- 11:47 Early Zionists sought to destroy traditional Jewish identity
- 12:17 Jabotinsky's 1905 quote: creating the opposite of the Jew
- 13:49 Zionist leaders medicalized and sought to eradicate Jewish existence
- 15:24 Israel claims to represent all Jews without their consent
- 16:52 Only state claiming to speak for non-citizens worldwide
- 17:44 Non-Israeli Jews automatically implicated in Gaza crimes
- 24:28 Zionism demands ethnic cleansing that Judaism never required
- 27:16 Orthodox view: Zionism as anti-Semitic ideology seeking to annihilate Jews
- 29:07 Nation-state concept didn't exist when Torah was written
- 36:29 Emotional connection to Israel despite not speaking Hebrew
- 38:35 Zionist co-option of Jewish identity and symbols
- 45:26 American arms industry and financial interests in Israel
- 48:45 Israel as country with no recognized borders or international norms
- 50:35 Western support for ethnonationalist states like Israel
- 51:44 Israeli tech ecosystem tested in occupied territories
- 53:30 Emotional blackmail equating criticism with betraying Jewish identity
- 56:42 Jewish identity existed for thousands of years without Zionism
- 01:00:40 Supporting Palestinian liberation as expression of Jewish values
