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Why She Leads podcast.
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In this series, Standard Bank CIB shines a light on powerhouse dealmakers,
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who happen to be women,
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and today I have the honour to travel all the way
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from the Johannesburg studio to a studio in Nigeria,
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and the powerhouse that I'm about to have a conversation with
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is Joyce Dimkpa,
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who is Head of Client Coverage in Nigeria.
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Welcome Joyce,
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it's an honour to have a chat with you this afternoon.
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Thank you,
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it’s so good to meet you, Judy.
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Just looking through your profile and I was really impressed
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with the things that you've achieved just on the academic side.
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Master's in Finance, Chartered Financial Analyst.
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How would you say your qualifications
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have prepared you for the position that you hold?
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Going through the financial services industry,
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my first degree was in anatomy, medical science,
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and one of the things I like to do is knowledge.
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I have a huge thirst and hunger for knowledge.
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Curiosity is very critical for me.
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But going through the industry that is male dominated,
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going through sectors that,
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degrees,
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certificates were important.
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It was also critical for me to ensure that I was able to learn
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and use those same tools to get better at what it is that I do today.
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So being a CFA Charter Holder was a second step for me.
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The first one was getting my ACC, in my accounting career.
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So I was in banking and my first degree was in medical sciences.
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One thing I needed to do was to cement and validate
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my knowledge within the financial services sector.
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So it was important for me to become a chartered accountant.
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So that helped my understand within the industry.
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But I would say that the interesting thing about learning
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is that once you do something, you just want to keep learning.
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So finishing my accounting background career,
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the next thing was to go and then become a chartered financial analyst.
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But that was actually a challenge for me from my first mentor, Bruce Fell
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who was also doing the exam, and he introduced me to it
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and said it would be great to register for it now that I've finished.
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So it was a big one and a tough one, but I would say one of the biggest victories
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for me so far and I'm very glad I did it, it helped me even further,
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even if I did it at a later stage of my career, because what it did
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for me and in my organisation at that time was, I was doing it at a senior level,
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I was a woman, I was not even in Treasury.
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So the organisation then made it
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important for people to go in with the same learning.
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And then a lot of people came to me and said to me, but if you can do this,
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I am not in Treasury, then I'm very happy to start this journey.
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And they weren't just women, they were men, they were women.
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So it was actually very rewarding to see that the journey that I went through,
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even in hardship, was very encouraging for others to start.
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So, that's really my learning story,
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but I would say that it’s something that I'm very proud of.
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That is so inspirational, Joyce.
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Wow.
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Medical, finance and not just finance.
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Accountant first and then the CFA route.
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There aren’t many people I know that are both the CA's and CFA’s.
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So yeah, that's quite impressive.
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Did you ever practice on the medical side?
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I know you've been with the bank for 15 years.
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Was that your first job?
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My medical journey was actually
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a journey for quests, it was a quest for knowledge for me.
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I didn't practice on my medical roots.
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It was more for knowledge.
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And I say that's not with any
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not with any disregard for that quest,
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but one of the biggest trends that I have today as an individual
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is one of the things I learned as a science student
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which is always asking the question, why?
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So I didn't practice, but it helped me to always
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question things and was one of my biggest trends.
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So the 15 years that I spent was in my first job,
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which was in another financial services industry in Nigeria,
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and I've spent another five at Standard Bank.
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So a lot of my career, my whole career has been in the financial services industry.
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But I have to tell you, I still know everything about anatomy
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and all the bones in the body, so I haven't forgotten it at all.
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As a medical doctor,
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as part of my first training, I'm impressed
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and I can relate.
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You spoke briefly about
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how it is a male dominated space
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being in Africa, all of us,
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What do you think as leaders, women and men leaders,
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we can do, to ensure that there is transformation where it matters
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in leadership, leadership that represents both genders, male and female?
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What do you think we can do?
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One of my biggest career victories
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was in the energy sector, which is very male dominated.
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I was the first lady in the industry to head that desk, so a lot of men had done it
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before me and it was my biggest challenge, I have to say so far.
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But I would tell you something interesting that happened to me.
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It was the year I lost my dad, and I had the opportunity to either take on that role
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or travel to Zambia to take on another role.
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And for me, I just thought about it and I said, “Well the worst has happened”.
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And everybody discouraged me and said to me, please don't do this.
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Everybody's thinking I’ve been fired.
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And I thought, Well, what more can be worse than losing my dad?
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So I went into it fearless, thinking nothing else could happen,
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but it was a tough one.
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I have to tell you, because first I needed to build credibility as a person
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and then credibility as a woman, which was even tougher.
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And then coming to a role where there was no female, just men,
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because a lot of them were engineers in Stem, of course.
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But I think one thing that will always guide me is always the curiosity
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and a hunger to learn.
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And I'm just putting my mind down to understand
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and learn the industry itself.
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And then just knowing that it's a journey
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and then taking it one step at a time.
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So from a team
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where we didn't have women in before I left that table,
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we had at least 50% representation from women who wanted to also be part
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of that team because they had seen me come into it, they had seen it happen,
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and every time I saw them, I said to them, just give yourself one year.
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All you need to do is focus on it.
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You will learn, you will understand.
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And I believe that now, it's now represented more 75%, 25%.
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But even looking at it globally,
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you hear me talk a lot about learning.
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It always starts as a base
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for both sides, men and women.
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When you have interactions with clients, the first thing they want to ask
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and understand is you're able to bring value to their business.
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They're actually not checking to see whether you're a man or a woman.
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So when I say learning,
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I'm saying it to the women as well, because it's harder when you're a woman.
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So if you don't understand it, it’s also just twice as hard.
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So the first thing
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they want to understand is, what value you're bring,
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and how you're going to help them solve the business.
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So if you don't understand it, you're not able to help with that journey.
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If you don't feel their pain, you're not able to help the journey.
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And if you don't also have a mind
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to bring solutions, you are not also able to help with the journey.
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So just in leadership is just ensuring and encouraging that all organisations
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have a culture of ongoing and continuous learning
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and truly give people the right skills that are required to allow them
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to compete on any scale,
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whether they are in Nigeria,
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whether they're in South Africa, whether they are in the UK or any part of the world.
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That's the first and the best thing you can give to anyone.
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And then the other softer skills come as you build those relationships.
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So I would always still come back to the base of, taking the time
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to understand, and that's the way we can also build that value.
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Wow! You know, one of the things I like that you said,
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over and above
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you mentoring other people and women.
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Just living your life, actually
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works as a role model
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for other people because you make it accessible.
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You say it's possible.
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I have no doubt in my mind that you've had mentors along that journey.
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What one thing have you learned from one of your mentors
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that sustains you during challenging times?
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I would say the one thing that I've learned and it’s quite hard
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to actually settle on this one because I have multiple mentors.
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The first person that I worked with, Bruce Fell, the first thing he taught me was
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diligence and eating the fruit of the land.
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And he said to me
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that it was just important to putting the best in everything
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that you do as an individual, as it helps you to stand,
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and it helps you to be able to say to anyone that you have done the part
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that you need to do, and then the reward that should come with it,
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should come thereafter.
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So it was about diligence and reward.
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He taught me a lesson about diligence and reward.
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That was one thing that was critical for me in the first stage of my career
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and if you allow me, I would say the second person who was a lady
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then taught me about wisdom and in understanding that as I go on
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and early in my career and higher in my career,
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that I'm not going to be able to access everywhere my male colleagues can access.
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So I need to understand how I want to navigate the next course of my journey.
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And she was female,
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and she said to me that I need to be able to go through my career
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with wisdom, understanding that I can go to all those places.
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But then I need to ask myself,
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what do I need to bring to the table to ensure that I'm still able to deliver,
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even if I can't make it to all those places
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that my male colleagues will go to, and that also helped me to understand how
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to navigate the next part of my journey.
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And the third was just humility.
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Understanding as I go through this journey
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that it was important to still stay true to who I am
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and still be me, even as I go through my life journey.
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So I think those three things were key for me, the diligence,
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wisdom and also humility.
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Those three words I would say.
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I'm happy to say, Joyce, that we have a clip
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from one of your mentors, and so I will play it now.
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My dear Joyce,
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happy to send you this very special message.
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I am super proud of the work that you are doing
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and the values that you continue to live by
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at work and in your personal life.
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I pray that you continue to be a beacon of light
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to your colleagues within the Standard Bank Group
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I wish you the very best.
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Keep the flag flying high.
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My goodness
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I don’t believe it.
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Oh my God.
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Yeah, that's feels special, right?
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It was just awesome.
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You can't even understand how it feels.
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I sent her an e-mail yesterday.
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I can't believe it.
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It's so good to be surrounded
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by people that make it possible for you.
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But obviously, you are the driver of your destiny and your self-improvement.
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But to have this support is so important,
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and I have no doubt that you also mentor others and maybe you can just share
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what you might have learned from the people that you mentor.
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I would say the one thing I've learned from the people that I mentor
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and it's quite interesting to share, that is
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not to give up.
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A lot of the strength I actually received
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was from my mentees when I was also down.
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And he'll tell me, don't worry, you're the best, you're good at this,
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just keep going.
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And I will say the one thing they told me was not to give up, never give up.
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It's the young generation,
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but there's a strength.
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And in its strength that I would say
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I find in a lot of the young people that I also mentor,
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they are really strong people that have giving me the strength not to give up.
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Wow, that's amazing.
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You have passion for empowerment,
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financial inclusion and just literacy training of people.
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What informs that?
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One thing that I would say,
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if can share my experience, was, I read a book
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was a long time ago, about 20 years ago, and I still can't remember,
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but a lot of the things in there
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were things that caught me and it was Rich Dad, Poor Dad.
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And it made it clear to me that if there was one thing
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I didn't want to be in was what they call the rat race.
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So the quest for just being independent,
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the quest for being financially free was very important for me.
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And once I got the learning, it was important for me
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to share with others as well, because I realised that
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it gave me a lot of strength and passion in putting my best
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into my workplace, because then I wasn't focused on this
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or that or what the reward was.
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It was now really focused on the best of me, as opposed to
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focusing on the reward.
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Not like reward is is not important, don't get me wrong.
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But then I put my attention on where it really needed to be.
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So that really impacted me.
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And I wanted to share the same thing with everyone who I mentor,
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just to make it easier for them to also be able to go to their workplace journey.
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So that's one of the reasons that I share that, and I have a huge,
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huge quest, for knowledge when it comes to finance.
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And I have, so I like to share that knowledge as well.
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That's one thing that I would say
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drives me
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in the sharing of that knowledge.
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Great. Thanks very much for that, Joyce.
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And to the interesting parts now.
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Twins that are two years old,
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and your senior position within the bank,
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how is that juggling act?
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I have to laugh and smile at that one because I have to say
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that's one of the biggest juggling acts I've ever seen in my life.
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I'm still working at that one.
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I tell people haven't slept for two years,
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but it's so rewarding, just growing
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and also watching my babies grow.
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So I can't complain,
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even without sleep for two years but,
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it’s is been an interesting journey.
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And every time I talk to moms and tell them
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“You didn't tell us this is how it would be”.
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they say to me, “If we did, you would never do it”.
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So I'm very happy to also do the same thing
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they've done to me, to my other friends, not tell them how it's going to be,
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but I can't complain.
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Standard Bank has been amazing.
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I couldn't have done this anywhere else.
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It really allows you to be a mum.
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It allows you to be the best of who you are
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and we're truly grateful to be in an organisation like Standard Bank.
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And I don't take it lightly at all because I know that I have colleagues
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in other industries in the finance industry
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and in other places where it's of course, I'm sure they're going through the same,
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but I have to give all that gratitude to the organisation
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because I see others who are also going through the same journey
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and they are doing well.
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Not easy, but they're doing well, I have to say.
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Oh, that's great.
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A quick one on that.
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As a new parent, has it changed you?
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Has it taught you anything about yourself that you didn't know?
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I love that question.
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I'm a twin mum of a boy and a girl,
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and I'm sharing my experiences now,
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with everyone, and more importantly, also focusing on women.
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I see the difference.
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Having the benefit of bringing up a boy and a girl
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at the same time is very interesting.
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It might be different for others, but in my experience
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I see that the boy’s fearless, but I see my daughter is always calculated,
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wanting to take her time.
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She doesn't want to take the risk.
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So I also see myself and I ask myself,
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Wow, that this must be why it takes us,
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it takes me, but I can’t talk for others anyway,
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but I believe that quite a number of women in the same category.
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It takes us a lot, a lot longer to become,
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while it might take my male colleague a lot shorter because then they're
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born naturally,
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it’s natural for them to take sudden risks while women really need to take their time.
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So I now see my daughter,
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I understand that my work and my role is also to help and navigate
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some of those concerns early on,
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so that she can also embrace life early and understand
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that it's okay to fail and not be worried about some of those failures
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that we worry about as ladies, and growing up in Africa,
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where you are taught to be seen and not heard.
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So some of those things are things that I also
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want to make sure that my daughter early on
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also experiences it a bit differently
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from the way that I did
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as a mum in Africa.
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Wow, that's a business school of parenting,
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a boy and a girl at the same time.
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And these are the formative years.
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Well done.
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Well done, Joyce.
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Do you have a bucket list?
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And if you do what is in it, what is still missing, what, you know
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you still want to achieve?
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I do,
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I have a bucket list and it's changing over the years, every decade it changes.
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I think my bucket list used to have bungee jumping, skydiving,
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it had going to every country in the world
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is changing and I can understand why.
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But I would say that I still have a few things
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and I believe that travel is there.
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Travel is still key for me.
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I really do enjoy traveling and I would
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definitely still like to travel to at least 100 countries.
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I'm on 30 something now,
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so I still have 70 to go.
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I still have 70 to go,
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so I hope that I have enough money to do all that travel.
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The 100 is still on my bucket list.
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But travel, I would say, and just being able
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to experience the world because I believe in the world
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in itself, and in life itself of being enjoyed.
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I don't have any of those hard lines,
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‘I want to be this. I want to be CEO now’.
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I think travel is still key because I believe
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that a lot of the experiences that I've gotten, I think from others
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and it has also been from going to different places and really seeing that
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we're not all very different,
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we’re just different shapes and sizes,
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but not all very different.
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Understanding and seeing the differences in others
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helps me to also be a better person.
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So I am still very keen on traveling and getting to know people
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in other parts of the world.
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That's amazing.
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You've just added something to my bucket list.
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I'll start by counting the countries
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I've been to, but thank you so much, Joyce.
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It was an honour to share this
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conversation with you, and I do
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wish you all the best, especially the twins.
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Have fun and enjoy every milestone because they grow up so quickly.
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before you know it, they're out of the house
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and they're like, okay, what did I do before they were there?
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But thank you.
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It was a true honour to meet you and have a chat to you.
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Thank you. Thank you.
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I really can't express how this has made me feel
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and just hearing my mentor also, just giving me
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those words has just given me double zeal, and in sharing with you and I'm sure
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you've heard and also interviewed lots of people, but knowing that
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we are setting aside this special time to speak to ladies
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and understand and see how they do it is actually very rewarding.
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Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity.
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Thank you. Thanks Joyce, all of the best.
