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00:13
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Why She Leads podcast. |
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In this series, Standard Bank CIB
shines a light on powerhouse dealmakers, |
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who happen to be women, |
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and today
I have the honour to travel all the way |
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from the Johannesburg studio to a studio
in Nigeria, |
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and the powerhouse
that I'm about to have a conversation with |
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is Joyce Dimkpa, |
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who is Head of Client Coverage in Nigeria. |
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Welcome Joyce, |
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it's an honour to have a chat
with you this afternoon. |
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00:53
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Thank you, |
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00:54
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it’s so good to meet you, Judy. |
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00:56
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Just looking through your profile
and I was really impressed |
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01:00
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with the things that you've achieved
just on the academic side. |
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01:05
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Master's in Finance, Chartered
Financial Analyst. |
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01:09
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How would you say
your qualifications |
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01:12
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have prepared you
for the position that you hold? |
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01:15
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Going through the financial services
industry, |
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01:18
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my first degree was in anatomy,
medical science, |
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and one of the things I like to do
is knowledge. |
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01:24
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I have a huge thirst
and hunger for knowledge. |
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01:26
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Curiosity is very critical for me. |
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01:29
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But going through the industry
that is male dominated, |
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01:32
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going through sectors that, |
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01:35
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degrees, |
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01:37
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certificates were important. |
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01:38
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It was also critical for me
to ensure that I was able to learn |
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and use those same tools to get better
at what it is that I do today. |
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01:49
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So being a CFA
Charter Holder was a second step for me. |
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01:54
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The first one was getting my ACC,
in my accounting career. |
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01:59
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So I was in banking and my first degree
was in medical sciences. |
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02:02
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One thing I needed to do
was to cement and validate |
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02:05
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my knowledge
within the financial services sector. |
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02:08
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So it was important for me
to become a chartered accountant. |
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02:12
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So that helped my understand
within the industry. |
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02:15
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But I would say that
the interesting thing about learning |
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02:18
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is that once you do something,
you just want to keep learning. |
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02:21
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So finishing my accounting
background career, |
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02:25
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the next thing was to go and then become
a chartered financial analyst. |
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02:29
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But that was actually a challenge for me
from my first mentor, Bruce Fell |
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02:33
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who was also doing the exam,
and he introduced me to it |
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and said it would be great
to register for it now that I've finished. |
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02:41
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So it was a big one and a tough one, but
I would say one of the biggest victories |
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02:44
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for me so far and I'm very glad I did
it, it helped me even further, |
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even if I did it at a later
stage of my career, because what it did |
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for me and in my organisation at that
time was, I was doing it at a senior level, |
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I was a woman, I was not even in Treasury. |
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03:02
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So the organisation then made it |
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important for people
to go in with the same learning. |
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03:08
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And then a lot of people came to me
and said to me, but if you can do this, |
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I am not in Treasury,
then I'm very happy to start this journey. |
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And they weren't just women,
they were men, they were women. |
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So it was actually very rewarding to see
that the journey that I went through, |
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even in hardship,
was very encouraging for others to start. |
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03:27
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So, that's really my learning story, |
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03:30
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but I would say
that it’s something that I'm very proud of. |
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03:34
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That is so inspirational, Joyce. |
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03:37
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Wow. |
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03:38
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Medical, finance and not just finance. |
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Accountant first and then the CFA route. |
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There aren’t many people
I know that are both the CA's and CFA’s. |
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So yeah, that's quite impressive. |
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Did you ever practice on the medical side? |
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I know you've been with the bank
for 15 years. |
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Was that your first job? |
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My medical journey was actually |
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a journey for quests,
it was a quest for knowledge for me. |
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I didn't practice on my medical roots. |
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04:11
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It was more for knowledge. |
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04:14
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And I say that's not with any |
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04:18
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not with any disregard for that quest, |
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but one of the biggest trends
that I have today as an individual |
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is one of the things
I learned as a science student |
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which is always
asking the question, why? |
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So I didn't practice,
but it helped me to always |
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question things
and was one of my biggest trends. |
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So the 15 years that I spent
was in my first job, |
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which was in another financial services
industry in Nigeria, |
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and I've spent another five at Standard
Bank. |
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So a lot of my career, my whole career has
been in the financial services industry. |
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But I have to tell you,
I still know everything about anatomy |
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and all the bones in the body,
so I haven't forgotten it at all. |
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As a medical doctor, |
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as part of my first training,
I'm impressed |
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and I can relate. |
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05:10
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You spoke briefly about |
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05:12
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how it is a male dominated space |
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05:16
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being in Africa, all of us, |
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What do you think as leaders,
women and men leaders, |
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we can do, to ensure that
there is transformation where it matters |
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05:28
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in leadership, leadership that represents
both genders, male and female? |
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What do you think we can do? |
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05:36
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One of my biggest career victories |
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was in the energy sector,
which is very male dominated. |
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I was the first lady in the industry
to head that desk, so a lot of men had done it |
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before me and it was my biggest challenge,
I have to say so far. |
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But I would tell you something interesting
that happened to me. |
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It was the year I lost my dad, and I had
the opportunity to either take on that role |
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06:00
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or travel to Zambia
to take on another role. |
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06:04
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And for me, I just thought about it
and I said, “Well the worst has happened”. |
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06:08
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And everybody discouraged me
and said to me, please don't do this. |
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Everybody's thinking I’ve been fired. |
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And I thought, Well,
what more can be worse than losing my dad? |
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So I went into it fearless, thinking
nothing else could happen, |
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but it was a tough one. |
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06:20
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I have to tell you, because first
I needed to build credibility as a person |
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and then credibility as a woman,
which was even tougher. |
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06:28
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And then coming to a role
where there was no female, just men, |
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because a lot of them
were engineers in Stem, of course. |
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06:35
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But I think one thing that will always
guide me is always the curiosity |
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and a hunger to learn. |
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06:40
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And I'm just putting my mind down
to understand |
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and learn the industry itself. |
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And then just knowing that it's a journey |
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and then taking it one step at a time. |
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06:53
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So from a team |
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06:54
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where we didn't have women in
before I left that table, |
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we had at least 50% representation
from women who wanted to also be part |
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07:03
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of that team because they had seen me
come into it, they had seen it happen, |
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07:08
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and every time I saw them, I said to them,
just give yourself one year. |
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All you need to do is focus on it. |
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07:14
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You will learn, you will understand. |
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07:16
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And I believe that
now, it's now represented more 75%, 25%. |
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07:22
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But even looking at it globally, |
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07:25
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you hear me talk a lot about learning. |
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07:27
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It always starts as a base |
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07:30
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for both sides, men and women. |
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07:35
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When you have interactions with clients,
the first thing they want to ask |
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07:39
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and understand is you're able
to bring value to their business. |
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07:42
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They're actually not checking
to see whether you're a man or a woman. |
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07:46
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So when I say learning, |
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I'm saying it to the women as well,
because it's harder when you're a woman. |
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So if you don't understand
it, it’s also just twice as hard. |
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07:57
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So the first thing |
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they want to understand
is, what value you're bring, |
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and how you're going to help them
solve the business. |
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So if you don't understand it,
you're not able to help with that journey. |
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08:09
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If you don't feel their pain,
you're not able to help the journey. |
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08:12
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And if you don't also have a mind |
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08:15
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to bring solutions, you are not also able
to help with the journey. |
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08:19
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So just in leadership is just ensuring
and encouraging that all organisations |
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have a culture of ongoing and continuous
learning |
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and truly give people the right skills
that are required to allow them |
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to compete on any scale, |
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whether they are in Nigeria, |
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whether they're in South Africa,
whether they are in the UK or any part of the world. |
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That's the first and
the best thing you can give to anyone. |
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And then the other softer skills come
as you build those relationships. |
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So I would always still come back to the base
of, taking the time |
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to understand, and that's the way
we can also build that value. |
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Wow! You know,
one of the things I like that you said, |
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over and above |
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you mentoring other people and women. |
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09:04
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Just living your life, actually |
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works as a role model |
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for other people
because you make it accessible. |
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You say it's possible. |
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09:17
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I have no doubt in my mind that you've had
mentors along that journey. |
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09:22
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What one thing
have you learned from one of your mentors |
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that sustains you
during challenging times? |
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09:30
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I would say the one thing
that I've learned and it’s quite hard |
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to actually settle on this one
because I have multiple mentors. |
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The first person that I worked with,
Bruce Fell, the first thing he taught me was |
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09:42
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diligence and eating the fruit of the land. |
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09:45
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And he said to me |
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that it was just important
to putting the best in everything |
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09:51
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that you do as an individual,
as it helps you to stand, |
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09:57
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and it helps you to be able to say
to anyone that you have done the part |
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10:02
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that you need to do, and then the reward
that should come with it, |
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10:05
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should come thereafter. |
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10:07
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So it was about diligence and reward. |
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10:09
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He taught me a lesson
about diligence and reward. |
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10:12
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That was one thing that was critical
for me in the first stage of my career |
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10:16
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and if you allow me, I would say
the second person who was a lady |
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10:20
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then taught me about wisdom
and in understanding that as I go on |
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10:25
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and early in my career
and higher in my career, |
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10:28
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that I'm not going to be able to access
everywhere my male colleagues can access. |
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10:32
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So I need to understand how I want
to navigate the next course of my journey. |
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10:38
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And she was female, |
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10:39
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and she said to me that I need to be able
to go through my career |
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10:42
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with wisdom, understanding
that I can go to all those places. |
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10:46
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But then I need to ask myself, |
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10:47
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what do I need to bring to the table
to ensure that I'm still able to deliver, |
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even if I can't make it
to all those places |
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10:54
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that my male colleagues will go to,
and that also helped me to understand how |
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10:57
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to navigate the next part of my journey. |
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11:01
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And the third was just humility. |
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11:04
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Understanding as I go through this journey |
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11:07
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that it was important to
still stay true to who I am |
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11:11
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and still be me,
even as I go through my life journey. |
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11:17
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So I think those three things were key
for me, the diligence, |
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wisdom and also humility. |
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Those three words I would say. |
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I'm happy to say, Joyce,
that we have a clip |
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11:34
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from one of your mentors,
and so I will play it now. |
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11:39
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My dear Joyce, |
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happy to send you
this very special message. |
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11:43
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I am super proud of the work
that you are doing |
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11:46
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and the values that you
continue to live by |
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11:49
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at work and in your personal life. |
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11:51
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I pray that you continue to be a beacon of light |
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11:54
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to your colleagues within the Standard Bank Group |
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I wish you the very best. |
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11:58
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Keep the flag flying high. |
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12:01
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My goodness |
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12:02
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I don’t believe it. |
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12:06
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Oh my God. |
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12:08
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Yeah, that's feels special, right? |
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It was just awesome. |
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You can't even understand how it feels. |
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12:17
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I sent her an e-mail yesterday. |
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12:19
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I can't believe it. |
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12:21
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It's so good to be surrounded |
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12:23
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by people that make it possible for you. |
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12:27
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But obviously, you are the driver
of your destiny and your self-improvement. |
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12:32
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But to have this support is so important, |
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12:35
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and I have no doubt that you also mentor
others and maybe you can just share |
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12:41
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what you might have learned
from the people that you mentor. |
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12:44
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I would say the one thing I've learned
from the people that I mentor |
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12:48
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and it's quite interesting to share,
that is |
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12:52
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not to give up. |
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12:54
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A lot of the strength I actually received |
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12:56
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was from my mentees when I was also down. |
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13:00
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And he'll tell me, don't worry,
you're the best, you're good at this, |
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13:03
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just keep going. |
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13:05
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And I will say the one thing they told me
was not to give up, never give up. |
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13:09
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It's the young generation, |
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13:11
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but there's a strength. |
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13:12
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And in its strength that I would say |
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13:14
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I find in a lot of the young people
that I also mentor, |
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13:17
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they are really strong people that have
giving me the strength not to give up. |
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13:22
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Wow, that's amazing. |
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13:23
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You have passion for empowerment, |
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13:29
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financial inclusion
and just literacy training of people. |
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13:34
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What informs that? |
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13:36
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One thing that I would say, |
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13:38
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if can share my experience,
was, I read a book |
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13:41
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was a long time ago, about 20 years ago,
and I still can't remember, |
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13:45
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but a lot of the things in there |
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13:47
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were things that caught me
and it was Rich Dad, Poor Dad. |
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13:50
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And it made it clear to me
that if there was one thing |
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13:55
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I didn't want to be in was
what they call the rat race. |
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14:00
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So the quest for just being independent, |
|
14:03
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the quest for being financially
free was very important for me. |
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14:08
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And once I got the learning,
it was important for me |
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14:11
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to share with others as well,
because I realised that |
|
14:14
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it gave me a lot of strength and passion
in putting my best |
|
14:19
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into my workplace,
because then I wasn't focused on this |
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14:23
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or that or what the reward was. |
|
14:25
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It was now really focused
on the best of me, as opposed to |
|
14:29
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focusing on the reward. |
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14:31
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Not like reward is is not important,
don't get me wrong. |
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14:34
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But then I put my attention
on where it really needed to be. |
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14:38
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So that really impacted me. |
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14:41
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And I wanted to share the same thing
with everyone who I mentor, |
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14:45
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just to make it easier for them to also
be able to go to their workplace journey. |
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14:50
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So that's one of the reasons
that I share that, and I have a huge, |
|
14:54
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huge quest, for knowledge
when it comes to finance. |
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14:59
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And I have, so I like to share
that knowledge as well. |
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15:03
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That's one thing that I would say |
|
15:06
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drives me |
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15:07
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in the sharing of that knowledge. |
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15:10
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Great. Thanks very much for that, Joyce. |
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15:13
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And to the interesting parts now. |
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15:17
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Twins that are two years old, |
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15:22
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and your senior position within the bank, |
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15:26
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how is that juggling act? |
|
15:28
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I have to laugh and smile at that one
because I have to say |
|
15:32
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that's one of the biggest juggling acts
I've ever seen in my life. |
|
15:36
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I'm still working at
that one. |
|
15:38
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I tell people haven't slept for two years, |
|
15:41
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but it's so rewarding, just growing |
|
15:44
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and also watching my babies grow. |
|
15:47
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So I can't complain, |
|
15:49
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even without sleep
for two years but, |
|
15:51
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it’s is been an interesting journey. |
|
15:53
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And every time I talk to moms
and tell them |
|
15:55
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“You didn't tell us
this is how it would be”. |
|
15:58
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they say to me,
“If we did, you would never do it”. |
|
16:02
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So I'm
very happy to also do the same thing |
|
16:06
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they've done to me, to my other friends,
not tell them how it's going to be, |
|
16:10
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but I can't complain. |
|
16:11
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Standard Bank has been amazing. |
|
16:14
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I couldn't have done this anywhere else. |
|
16:16
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It really allows you to be a mum. |
|
16:19
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It allows you to be
the best of who you are |
|
16:22
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and we're truly grateful to be
in an organisation like Standard Bank. |
|
16:27
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And I don't take it lightly at all
because I know that I have colleagues |
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16:31
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in other industries
in the finance industry |
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16:34
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and in other places where it's of course,
I'm sure they're going through the same, |
|
16:38
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but I have to give all that gratitude
to the organisation |
|
16:41
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because I see others who are also going
through the same journey |
|
16:45
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and they are doing well. |
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16:46
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Not easy,
but they're doing well, I have to say. |
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16:49
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Oh, that's great. |
|
16:51
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A quick one on that. |
|
16:53
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As a new parent, has it changed you? |
|
16:58
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Has it taught you anything about yourself
that you didn't know? |
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17:01
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I love that question. |
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17:04
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I'm a twin
mum of a boy and a girl, |
|
17:09
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and I'm sharing my experiences now, |
|
17:11
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with everyone, and more importantly,
also focusing on women. |
|
17:14
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I see the difference. |
|
17:17
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Having the benefit
of bringing up a boy and a girl |
|
17:19
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at the same time is very interesting. |
|
17:24
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It might be different for others,
but in my experience |
|
17:28
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I see that the boy’s fearless, but I see
my daughter is always calculated, |
|
17:33
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wanting to take her time. |
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17:34
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She doesn't want to take the risk. |
|
17:36
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So I also see myself and I ask myself, |
|
17:39
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Wow, that this must be why it takes us, |
|
17:44
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it takes me,
but I can’t talk for others anyway, |
|
17:46
|
but I believe that quite a number of women
in the same category. |
|
17:49
|
It takes us a lot, a lot longer to become, |
|
17:52
|
while it might take my male colleague
a lot shorter because then they're |
|
17:56
|
born naturally, |
|
17:57
|
it’s natural for them to take sudden risks while women
really need to take their time. |
|
18:01
|
So I now see my daughter, |
|
18:04
|
I understand that my work
and my role is also to help and navigate |
|
18:09
|
some of those concerns early on, |
|
18:12
|
so that she can also embrace life
early and understand |
|
18:16
|
that it's okay to fail and not be worried
about some of those failures |
|
18:21
|
that we worry about as ladies,
and growing up in Africa, |
|
18:25
|
where you are
taught to be seen and not heard. |
|
18:29
|
So some of those things are things
that I also |
|
18:32
|
want to make sure
that my daughter early on |
|
18:36
|
also experiences it a bit differently |
|
18:38
|
from the way that I did |
|
18:40
|
as a mum in Africa. |
|
18:43
|
Wow, that's a business school
of parenting, |
|
18:47
|
a boy and a girl at the same time. |
|
18:51
|
And these are the formative years. |
|
18:52
|
Well done. |
|
18:53
|
Well done, Joyce. |
|
18:56
|
Do you have a bucket list? |
|
18:58
|
And if you do what is in it,
what is still missing, what, you know |
|
19:04
|
you still want to achieve? |
|
19:06
|
I do, |
|
19:07
|
I have a bucket list and it's changing
over the years, every decade it changes. |
|
19:12
|
I think my bucket list used to have bungee
jumping, skydiving, |
|
19:17
|
it had going to every country in the world |
|
19:20
|
is changing and I can understand why. |
|
19:23
|
But I would say that
I still have a few things |
|
19:26
|
and I believe that travel is there. |
|
19:28
|
Travel is still key for me. |
|
19:30
|
I really do enjoy traveling and I would |
|
19:33
|
definitely still like to travel
to at least 100 countries. |
|
19:38
|
I'm on 30 something now, |
|
19:40
|
so I still have 70 to go. |
|
19:44
|
I still have 70 to go, |
|
19:45
|
so I hope that I have enough money
to do all that travel. |
|
19:50
|
The 100 is still on my bucket list. |
|
19:53
|
But travel, I would say,
and just being able |
|
19:56
|
to experience the world
because I believe in the world |
|
19:59
|
in itself, and in life itself of
being enjoyed. |
|
20:03
|
I don't have any of those hard lines, |
|
20:06
|
‘I want to be this. I want to be CEO now’. |
|
20:08
|
I think travel is still key
because I believe |
|
20:11
|
that a lot of the experiences
that I've gotten, I think from others |
|
20:15
|
and it has also been from going
to different places and really seeing that |
|
20:19
|
we're not all very different, |
|
20:21
|
we’re just different shapes and sizes, |
|
20:23
|
but not all very different. |
|
20:25
|
Understanding
and seeing the differences in others |
|
20:28
|
helps me to also be a better person. |
|
20:30
|
So I am still very keen on traveling
and getting to know people |
|
20:34
|
in other parts of the world. |
|
20:35
|
That's amazing. |
|
20:36
|
You've just added something to my bucket
list. |
|
20:40
|
I'll start by counting the countries |
|
20:42
|
I've been to, but thank you
so much, Joyce. |
|
20:48
|
It was an honour to share this |
|
20:52
|
conversation with you, and I do |
|
20:55
|
wish you all the best,
especially the twins. |
|
20:59
|
Have fun and enjoy every milestone
because they grow up so quickly. |
|
21:05
|
before you know it,
they're out of the house |
|
21:07
|
and they're like, okay,
what did I do before they were there? |
|
21:10
|
But thank you. |
|
21:11
|
It was a true
honour to meet you and have a chat to you. |
|
21:15
|
Thank you. Thank you. |
|
21:16
|
I really can't express
how this has made me feel |
|
21:20
|
and just hearing my mentor also,
just giving me |
|
21:24
|
those words has just given me double
zeal, and in sharing with you and I'm sure |
|
21:29
|
you've heard and also interviewed
lots of people, but knowing that |
|
21:33
|
we are setting aside this special time
to speak to ladies |
|
21:38
|
and understand and see how they do
it is actually very rewarding. |
|
21:41
|
Thank you so much
for giving me the opportunity. |
|
21:44
|
Thank you. Thanks Joyce, all of the best. |
