00:10:
Hello and welcome to Why She Leads, a podcast by Standard Bank CIB.
00:14:
My name is Nzinga Qunta,
00:16:
and I'm so privileged to be hosting discussions with powerful dealmakers
00:20:
inside Standard Bank CIB.
00:22:
Now, when we're having these conversations, we're trying to find out
00:25:
how these women got into the positions that they occupy,
00:28:
tips that they can share with us
00:30:
obstacles they've overcome, and whether or not they've managed to find
00:33:
that very elusive balance between their work and personal life.
00:38:
Joining me today, Sharon Brighton, the Head of Legal Enablement
00:42:
at Standard Bank, CIB.
00:44:
Sharon, thanks so much for your time on Why She Leads today,
00:46:
really looking forward to our conversation.
00:48:
How would you introduce yourself to someone who doesn't know you?
00:51:
I'm deeply passionate.
00:54:
When I think of Standard Bank
00:55:
and I think of we believe in here, Africa is our home, we drive her growth,
01:00:
it really is something that talks to me.
01:02:
I'm a deeply purposeful person,
01:06:
and that is what really drives me every day.
01:09:
I wake up every morning,
01:11:
really feeling privileged to be part of this organisation.
01:14:
Fantastic. Just tell me a little bit about your upbringing.
01:16:
I know you’re a Jo’burg girl through and through.
01:18:
Yes, so I grew up in Jo'burg,
01:21:
I don't tell many people this, I was born in Springs.
01:23:
Ha,ha.. born in Springs.
01:27:
So I grew up in the East Rand.
01:30:
I grew up in a very sort of, let's call it traditional
01:33:
sort of setting, middle class family.
01:36:
Both my parents worked.
01:37:
I suppose the one thing that I think about when I think of my childhood is
01:42:
my parents were very purposeful about my education,
01:45:
so they spent many hours
01:49:
and dedicated a lot of time taking me to all different
01:52:
types of places, giving me the most incredible opportunities,
01:55:
and I'm so deeply grateful for that.
01:58:
And how do you think how you grew up, your parents
02:01:
working, impacted your career path, what you decided to study?
02:07:
So because my parents were so purposeful about my education
02:10:
and because it didn't really matter to them what I did,
02:14:
I think because it was really self-sufficiency,
02:17:
independence, passion that they wanted from me,
02:21:
that has put me in good stead for whatever I've chosen in my life.
02:27:
Honestly, from a very young girl, I wanted to be a lawyer.
02:30:
I don't really remember never wanting to be a lawyer.
02:33:
I even looked at my school book a couple of months ago,
02:36:
and you know, when they say, ‘What do you want to be?’
02:39:
and it said a corporate lawyer, and I'm living the dream.
02:43:
So, and I feel really deeply grateful and privileged to be in the position
02:48:
that I am. Yeah.
02:49:
Both my parents worked extremely hard, my dad’s 74 and still works.
02:53:
My mom had a very successful career in a corporate for 35 years.
02:58:
They're the most inspiring people I know.
03:00:
I'm really grateful to have them
03:01:
as people that I look up to every day and want to be just like them.
03:05:
Mmm...
03:06:
Who else inspires you in your professional life?
03:10:
I've been at the bank for 15 years,
03:12:
and I've been so blessed
03:14:
to have such incredible people that have guided me along the way.
03:19:
When, you know, when preparing for this today,
03:23:
they asked, who was your mentor?
03:24:
And I actually don't have a mentor. I actually have
03:28:
a board of directors who I tap into.
03:31:
And, you know, some of it is technical, so I feel that
03:35:
I've got people that I can talk to technically about things.
03:39:
I've got people on my board of directors who challenge me,
03:43:
and sometimes I don't like the conversation in that moment
03:47:
I feel uncomfortable, but actually they're there to grow me.
03:50:
I've got people that will always be my cheerleaders,
03:52:
and you need those in your board of directors as well.
03:55:
I really do feel that they have created
03:59:
such an amazing opportunity for me to go forward in this organisation.
04:04:
You know, when we were looking for people to speak about you,
04:09:
there were so many people that responded, we had to whittle it down,
04:13:
and so I love that you said there's a board of directors, so I'd like to read...
04:18:
Oh no, you’ll make me cry.
04:20:
I mean, we don't mind crying,
04:21:
there's tissues somewhere here.
04:23:
Clive Laburn, first has a quote and he says,
04:27:
‘Don't need the space between who you are and who you want to be,
04:31:
terrify you’.
04:33:
That's something that he quoted and he had this to say about you.
04:37:
Sharon is inspirational.
04:40:
Besides being a warm and bubbly family lady and good friend,
04:43:
she is a very capable and ambitious legal professional,
04:47:
and she manages to juggle it all while making work fun.
04:51:
She's genuine.
04:51:
And what you see is what you get.
04:54:
I was surprised when she first reached out to me for advice on her career path,
04:58:
and perhaps she was surprised that I was not trying to get her to stay in risk.
05:02:
But try to be as open minded about possibilities and opportunities
05:05:
for her as possible while debating the merits of staying or moving.
05:10:
In my own teams
05:11:
I've got used to some people moving on and finding
05:14:
what they are really passionate about.
05:15:
And so I try and see it from their view and maybe just help them test their own
05:19:
thinking in their pathway.
05:21:
All the credit of what she has achieved
05:23:
is due to her as a result and nothing I have done.
05:27:
She has been brave enough to make switches when she has run out of road
05:30:
and deal with change but always wanting to make a difference and influence.
05:35:
She's certainly one of the most impressive
05:38:
female leaders we are lucky enough to have in the bank.
05:41:
I chose the quote which I took off the net because it ties into our chats over time
05:46:
and the courage she has to make her own way forward.
05:50:
Sho! That's beautiful.
05:52:
I actually feel very emotional by that.
05:53:
But, he's a great guy and he's actually one of those people
05:57:
when I when I speak about
05:59:
how he challenges, he's someone who's challenged me,
06:01:
who's made me think differently about
06:04:
what to do, because it's easy sometimes
06:06:
to go down a traditional path.
06:09:
And he's really made me think, Want do you want get out of this?
06:13:
How do you see this for yourself?
06:15:
And it's rare to have
06:19:
that kind of quality in a person who actually
06:21:
is selfless in that moment and goes, this actually not about me,
06:25:
this is about you, and what do you want to do?
06:26:
Okay,
06:27:
let's listen to another... Theres another one?
06:30:
Well you did say you've got a board of directors.
06:32:
I do have a board of directors. Okay.
06:34:
This is from Marita Koti.
06:36:
I wish I could remember the first time I met Sharon
06:39:
sadly I dont,
06:41:
but Im pretty sure I was left thinking who is that lady?
06:46:
The word that I could use to describe Sharon is passion.
06:56:
and its just that passion that you meet
07:00:
when you have your initial interactions with Sharon,
07:03:
that you just need to embrace
07:08:
Sharon takes her passion and she is getting stuff done
07:13:
Shes one of the colleagues that I hold in very high regard.
07:18:
because of her effectiveness and her ability to really and truly get stuff done.
07:24:
and thats been most evident recently in her time having taken on the enablement role
07:32:
Shes only been in that role for a short period of time
07:35:
and she’s really done a phenomenal job of
07:39:
establishing important steps towards building a profile
07:44:
for the CIB legal team in various parts of CIB
07:49:
which we hadn’t touched on before
07:53:
and it’s just really exciting to see how this could develop
07:58:
and you know often, from time to time I’ll have an interaction with Sharon
08:04:
and I’ll be like, Wait is that your job?
08:09:
and she’ll always say Yes absolutely.
08:12:
and thats just because Sharon has that attitude
08:15:
of whatever it is that is needed or has to get done
08:18:
I can handle it and I will do it.
08:21:
And I really admire that in Sharon and I wish her the best in her role.
08:25:
Sho! You really are going to make me cry.
08:29:
Marita is very special,
08:30:
I mean, I'm very fortunate because I actually used to report to Marita,
08:34:
and Marita, as you heard,
08:38:
I mean, how eloquent is that woman?
08:39:
she's exceptional, but she just gives really great advice.
08:44:
I think what I... when I heard her say passion,
08:49:
I immediately was drawn to my parents
08:50:
because that's exactly what they wanted for me.
08:53:
They wanted me to be independent, self-sufficient and passionate.
08:56:
And the fact that someone else recognises that in you
08:59:
kind of makes me think I've done, I've done my job
09:02:
and that I'm living actually the dream of my parents and the dream of myself,
09:06:
and that that feels immensely, overwhelmingly amazing.
09:20:
It's incredible to be acknowledged for what you hope for yourself,
09:25:
what your parents hope for you.
09:27:
Absolutely.
09:29:
It really is. It's
09:32:
there's actually no words to really describe what it feels like to
09:35:
to have someone see you in the way that you want to show up.
09:39:
Mmm, you've come so far in your career,
09:43:
if you had to speak to the version of you
09:46:
that was still young and starting out, What would you say?
09:49:
I would tell my younger self, slow down, everything comes to you
09:53:
for those who wait, and never underestimate hard work.
09:57:
But I wouldn't
09:58:
tell my younger self anything further because I needed to make mistakes.
10:01:
I've made some pretty big mistakes,
10:03:
where I've gone.
10:06:
This is, you know, life changing,
10:07:
this is terrible.
10:09:
I've let myself down, I've let my family down, this organisation down, whatever.
10:14:
But I'll never forget it, will I?
10:15:
What's the importance of making those kind of mistakes?
10:19:
And if someone is watching who's building their career
10:23:
and is making those mistakes, which they feel are fatal,
10:27:
or harmful to their career, What do they need to remember?
10:30:
It's about having the humility to say, I've made a mistake.
10:34:
It's about owning it and being mindful
10:38:
around what you need to do not to do that further.
10:41:
I mean,
10:43:
or not to do that again in the future.
10:46:
And so it's got a little bit to do with like, don't be so hard on yourself,
10:50:
but also own it, like
10:52:
show up in a way that is authentic,
10:56:
show up in a way that people know that you you know,
11:00:
that you have this element to you that is vulnerable.
11:03:
I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
11:05:
But it's about how you get out of it.
11:06:
Be kind to yourself in that moment of getting out of it and,
11:10:
and own what you need to and just work damn hard next time
11:15:
and learn from it.
11:17:
And so at the level that you operate in, can you give us insight
11:20:
into some of these high level deals that you've participated in?
11:25:
that pressure,
11:26:
and then just saying, I'm going to get through.
11:27:
obviously we don’t want all the details.
11:30:
So I think inherently you're not going to meet many lawyers
11:37:
that are not fired by that real pressure
11:40:
of getting a deal over the line, particularly in Standard Bank.
11:44:
I mean, I look at my legal colleagues, we're completely driven
11:47:
to get the best for our for our clients.
11:50:
It's just this inherent nature of who we are,
11:52:
and certainly I resonate with that.
11:55:
When I go into a transaction and maybe I'm fortunate
11:59:
because I look at it differently.
12:01:
I always love the back story of our clients.
12:04:
I was in real estate for seven years.
12:06:
I was Head of Real Estate, Legal for seven years for Standard Bank,
12:11:
and I felt so immensely proud when I walked into
12:15:
an office block that we had just built for our clients
12:18:
and how proud that they were to show me around.
12:22:
One of my favourite deals that I've ever done, or my favourite transactions
12:26:
was the deal for M-KOPA and why it really resonated with me is,
12:31:
if I think of myself as a woman in the financial industry and I think
12:36:
and then I put the layer and context of Africa on it, you know, women
12:41:
financial inclusion for women is, it's just,
12:44:
we're at infancy stages.
12:46:
And, you know, why I was so inspired with M-KOPA is
12:51:
you know, part of the funding that we helped with,
12:55:
along with other lenders, was really financial inclusion for women.
13:00:
And people go, what does that really mean?
13:02:
Well, it's about actually empowering, about giving a woman a quality smartphone
13:06:
that she's able to afford and she's able to, you know, buy the necessary
13:12:
kind of ingredients for her shop in an informal market to sell sandwiches
13:17:
or porridge or soup or, you know, there was one story
13:22:
where it was a hairdresser who started to
13:26:
record content on Instagram and she got more clients as a result.
13:30:
Those kind of things drive me to do those deals.
13:33:
Those are the kind of deals that I stayed up all night to do,
13:37:
and it's just the most amazing feeling when it closes.
13:40:
I can't explain it, it's just, it's just great.
13:43:
What are you doing when you're not sleeping?
13:45:
in those hours where everyone is staying awake
13:49:
trying to get the deal over the line?
13:50:
I love those moments because we are all
13:54:
so highly connected in that moment to get it over the line.
13:57:
There's no like, Oh, we waiting for someone to do this or,
14:01:
Oh, you know, it's stuck in credit or, Oh, we need...
14:05:
There's none of that.
14:06:
There's no... everyone is so focused and purposeful
14:10:
in getting it over the line, that's why I say
14:12:
it doesn't feel like it's a job in that moment.
14:14:
it doesn't feel like it's a job in that moment.
14:17:
It feels like this is kind of the reason we're here.
14:23:
Amazing.
14:23:
Yeah. Amazing. Thank you.
14:26:
And then you speaking about the importance of transformation and inclusion.
14:30:
Yes.
14:30:
But it's been said that if women are included
14:34:
financially in Africa, our GDP collectively would increase
14:38:
by between 5 and 15%, just by making sure
14:41:
that women are participating, nothing, nothing too much,
14:44:
just making sure that more women are in that space.
14:47:
And it's important, I guess, on an individual basis as well, to make sure
14:50:
that you're bringing women into the space,
14:53:
100%
14:53:
and empowering and mentoring them.
14:55:
Tell me about what you do?
14:57:
I am very proud to say
14:58:
when I was in real estate legal, all of the lawyers were female
15:01:
and actually the leadership of Real Estate at one particular time,
15:05:
the head of Credit, the head of Legal, the head of Compliance,
15:08:
the head of the business were all female.
15:10:
I just think that's awesome. What we need to continue to do
15:14:
is ensure that we bring more women into our workforce.
15:20:
They bring a different perspective.
15:22:
They bring a diversity that we can't ever ignore,
15:28:
and yeah, I feel really very proud of CIB Legal
15:34:
specifically and the transformation we've made from a female perspective.
15:38:
Okay.
15:40:
I have a letter from your mentee.
15:45:
It's Sharon Baddoo.
15:47:
Yes, my namesake, we’re both Sharon’s, that's so cool.
15:50:
Dear Sharon, thank you for being an amazing mentor to me.
15:54:
I'm genuinely grateful for all the advice and wisdom
15:57:
you have generously shared and continued to share with me.
16:00:
Your continuous guidance
16:01:
and support have been instrumental in my career and personal growth.
16:05:
You show faith in me even when I don't.
16:09:
Your knack for seeing the bright side of things is remarkable,
16:12:
enviable, and worth emulating.
16:15:
You never let the perfect get in the way of the good
16:19:
you have held my hand and led me into rooms.
16:21:
Rooms never have considered stepping into and being one of my biggest cheerleaders.
16:27:
You make time to actively listen to me, even when you have so much to deal with
16:31:
and are keen to share your experience and advice.
16:33:
I often wonder how you do it.
16:36:
You epitomise walking the talk of being human first.
16:40:
You are an inspiration to me
16:41:
and have left an indelible mark in my life, in my career.
16:45:
Thanks to you, I'm a better version of myself.
16:48:
Yeah.
16:48:
Dankie, oyiwaladon, meaning
16:51:
thank you in Ga, my native dialect.
16:54:
That is so special.
16:57:
So Sharon
17:00:
is a colleague.
17:00:
So she's a legal colleague of mine.
17:05:
We, I think, started as a friendship really, and
17:08:
I take the role of mentor quite seriously. It's not just for me about,
17:13:
Oh, please put a meeting in my diary when we meet once a month.
17:15:
To me, it's a very purposeful relationship around, what do you want
17:21:
And what do I want to get out of it as well?
17:23:
Because it's I do believe it's a two way street,
17:24:
despite the fact that I'm a mentor,
17:26:
what I want to do is, I don't want to waste her time
17:29:
and I don't want her time to feel wasted either,
17:32:
and I don't want to waste my time I suppose.
17:35:
So what I love about how Sharon has showed up
17:38:
in these sessions and and conversations I've had with her
17:42:
is that she's very deliberate about, ‘This is what I'm struggling with.
17:46:
This is how I have thought about it.’
17:49:
So she hasn't just gone. This is what I'm struggling with. Help me.
17:52:
She's gone. ‘This is what I'm struggling with.
17:54:
This is how I think I'm thinking of doing it.
17:56:
What would you... how would you do this or
17:59:
how would you think I should potentially frame it? or whatever the case is.’
18:03:
And for that, I'm really grateful
18:04:
because it really is a relationship that needs to be nurtured.
18:08:
And I'm so proud of her.
18:10:
Ah, she's great.
18:11:
I'm, I'm very grateful to have her in my life.
18:14:
I've heard this thing,
18:16:
I don't know if it's true so you need to clear it up for me,
18:19:
that it's easier to be in-house Legal
18:21:
than be in a firm.
18:24:
The pressures are different.
18:25:
So it's not that we work
18:28:
less hours or more hours,
18:31:
depending on whether you're in-house or in a firm.
18:36:
It's a different kind of pressure.
18:37:
So I think the pressures are, we're not
18:41:
we're not chasing a timesheet, in the bank.
18:44:
I'm not filling in a timesheet and trying to meet a target.
18:49:
What happens in Practice, I think is more that it's very transactional based.
18:54:
And so if you come into the bank
18:56:
thinking that all I'm going to be doing is transactions,
19:01:
I think you might struggle a little bit because there's a lot more that’s
19:04:
expected of you.
19:05:
But when I say a lot more is expected of you, it's not like this overwhelmingly...
19:09:
It's that you want to be part of this journey.
19:12:
So it's not that we work less hours
19:15:
or that the pressure is less,
19:18:
it's that it's different.
19:20:
How do you balance being a parent,
19:23:
daughter, wife,
19:26:
mom,
19:27:
big deal banker,
19:29:
Lawyer?
19:31:
Yeah, so it's a combination of a couple of things.
19:35:
So I kept on chasing this elusive balance, like I have to have balance in my life.
19:40:
I have to do this.
19:41:
I have to run, I have to cook, I have to whatever.
19:45:
And I was very fortunate that I went to a life coach a couple of years ago.
19:48:
She's a fantastic person who gave me a lot of insights,
19:53:
and she said, “Well, instead of looking at it like it's
19:57:
a real balancing act, like, here's your family and here's your work,
20:01:
why don't you kind of look at your life as a big, like a cake, or a wheel,
20:08:
And that
20:09:
there are certain days where the segments of the cake
20:11:
for your family are going to be a little bit smaller,
20:13:
and the segments for work are going to be a bit bigger.
20:16:
And the next day, actually a new cake is there and the segment for your family
20:20:
is going to be bigger than the segment for business...”
20:22:
Somehow that resonates with me better,
20:24:
but I think really
20:28:
and truly, I'm very fortunate in that my husband,
20:35:
he certainly was never going
20:38:
to get a traditional wife out of me and that he knew from the get go.
20:43:
And so I have a very, very important
20:47:
infrastructure around me.
20:49:
And part of that infrastructure is really him.
20:52:
I mean, he, you know, really
20:55:
is just such a supportive person who I am so grateful to have in my life.
21:00:
But over and above that, we have set up our lives
21:04:
to have an infrastructure that makes me feel comfortable.
21:06:
It's changed over the years.
21:08:
You know, when my kids were smaller and, you know, my son was very ill
21:12:
when he was first born, we needed actual real care around him,
21:17:
and so we had an infrastructure that supported that,
21:19:
whilst I still was able to work and
21:23:
I didn't feel, I need to be there, but then I'm neglecting work.
21:27:
It felt like my pie on certain days
21:32:
had to be segmented in a particular way.
21:34:
And I think that's how it's worked for me.
21:38:
Don't always get it right, and I think we've got to be fair on ourselves,
21:43:
but for the most part I think I get there.
21:47:
What's the most important thing you've learned in your journey so far?
21:53:
You can't win every battle.
21:57:
Yeah.
21:59:
I think when you're younger, you want to fight everything, and fight
22:02:
I don't mean in a conflict way.
22:06:
It's that same thing about always you getting...
22:09:
you just want to get to the next thing.
22:11:
you just want to get to the next thing.
22:11:
I think it's about
22:14:
letting go of some things that are not important.
22:17:
What is the thing that you you need to sustain your own
22:21:
love and appreciation for yourself and your own self-worth?
22:26:
And then what,
22:27:
what matters to you and your family or whatever is important to you?
22:31:
It doesn't necessarily have to be family.
22:33:
In my case, it is.
22:34:
Don't sweat the small stuff, man.
22:37:
It’s a really simple lesson,
22:40:
. but it really is that.
22:42:
Thank you so much for your time today,
22:43:
Thank you so much.
22:44:
I feel like I've got so much insight into the legal sector at
22:48:
Standard Bank CIB, the challenges that you've overcome, the mistakes that you've made,
22:52:
but most importantly, just life lessons on how to keep going
22:57:
inside and outside the boardroom. Thank you.
22:59:
Thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
