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Welcome to the Standard Bank CIB, Why She Leads podcast.
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My name is Judy Dlamini and I will be your host.
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Standard Bank CIB, in this series,
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showcases powerhouse dealmakers
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who just happened to be women.
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It's women that can stand their own anywhere in the world,
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but choose to be at Standard Bank.
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It's women who are inspired to inspire.
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And today, I have the pleasure
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of chatting to the Head of Strategy Enablement in the global markets,
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Bulelwa Tetyana-Madonsela,
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welcome, Bulelwa.
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Thank you.
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It's such an honour to have you today.
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It is an honour to meet you and to have this conversation.
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Oh, great.
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Two barrels?
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Ha, ha, ha..
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Do you always use two barrels?
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So, the Tetyana surname
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I use here within the walls of Standard Bank.
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Yeah.
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And mainly because I've been here for 15 years,
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Wow!
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so my career has really grown
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within this organisation
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as a Tetyana,
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and I got married to Madonsela
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while I was here at the bank.
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And so I just really wanted to
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still maintain that identity within Standard Bank.
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But outside of the Standard Bank, I'm actually just Madonsela.
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Oh, okay, that's interesting.
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It's quite interesting because I have that option of double barrelled,
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and I use my dads surname,
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and when they say I'm a feminist, I'm like, no, I'm just choosing
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one man’s surname over another man's surname.
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There's no women there, so,,,
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I absolutely agree.
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And married with three kids?
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Yes.
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Oh, and how is that, the juggling?
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It's actually been
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a lot of effort.
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It's been a lot of effort, we’re a blended family
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because you probably could tell because I got married
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while I was here, yet I was here for 15 years.
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Eldest is 19,
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so the 19 year old is from my husband's first marriage,
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and the 12 year old is from my husband's first marriage,
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and so I had one child from my first marriage as well.
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So having a blended family has been
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one hell of work.
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And then being a career woman.
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And... but for me, family is so important,
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and it's the one thing that actually grounds me.
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Yeah.
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I am very deliberate in all the different personas
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that I actually encompass.
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Yeah.
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So I'm a person that likes to be present whenever I'm in a particular persona,
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so at home I am wife,
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I am mum, full on.
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Yeah.
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But at work,
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I am a colleague,
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and I've just been privileged
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to be able to have the right support system
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that when I'm at work I don't get distracted with money issues.
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Yeah, that's amazing. Hats off to you.
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That's a lot of juggling.
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It's not just your mainstream juggling.
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If you didn't become a banker,
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I know your background is accounting.
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Ha, ha..
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I know quite a few accountants that I'm related to.
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What would you be?
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because the choice is so wide.
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If I wasn't a banker, wasn't an accountant,
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I'll be in performing arts.
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Oh, are you kidding me?
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Not at all.
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Okay, that's your second career, then.
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I don't know,
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I think right now,
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well, in fact, since I was young, I do it
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rather for recreational purposes, rather than,
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you know, some form of income for me.
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I find it really gives me energy.
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I love singing.
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I love drama.
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I'm also good at art,
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so that's what I would have pursued.
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But I mean, I'm sure, you know, back then
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our parents were not so supportive of those type of careers.
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So I had to choose a career that made sense,
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and I happened to also be good in accounting.
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Well, I'm foretelling that you will have it as a second career
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post-retirement, because people don't retire now.
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Yeah, people don't retire,
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however, interestingly
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for me, my real passion, though, is people.
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Yeah.
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Even though I love performing arts, people are my true passion
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and that is like living my second career, people.
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Oh, I love that,
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and global markets means there's a bit of travelling.
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If you had to choose
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another country to be in and live there,
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what country would that be?
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and why?
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I'll probably choose two.
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Oh, okay.
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And I'm assuming you're referring
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to Africa rather than outside of Africa?
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It's up to you.
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I'm quite lenient.
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Okay, then,
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if it was Africa, I would choose Kenya,
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in Nairobi,
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and if it was outside of Africa, it would most likely be England.
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Okay, and why?
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Kenya,
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I just...
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I feel like Kenya's very similar to South Africa.
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The people are also very similar to South Africa.
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So when I engage with the people,
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you know, within the bank that are from Kenya, very, very similar.
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So I think that adjusting would be easy,
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number one.
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Number two, I just also love the East African culture.
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I think it's
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so rich and there's so much that is in common
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with the Southern African culture, actually, the East Africans,
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but the mere fact that I am Nguni, I do believe that
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we were all once Bantu, which are from East Africa.
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So that's what attracts me to Kenya.
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That's interesting. Yeah. And then England.
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I just.
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I love the corporate vibe in London.
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I really do.
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I find it it's not as brutal
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as America is, because America can be very abrasive,
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but England is really, it's corporate, it's cut-throat,
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but there's, there's some sensibility
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with it rather than the U.S.
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Oh, thats interesting, okay.
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You've been here for 15 years,
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let's walk down memory lane.
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You came in here,
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was it the first job or you?
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Oh, wow.
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No, it wasn't. Okay.
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So I was trained at Deloitte
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as an accountant, and then I decided
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to stay on after my articles as an audit manager.
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So that was my first real job as an audit manager at Deloitte.
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So that was my first real job as an audit manager at Deloitte,
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and I worked in the Durban office for a year
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and then I moved to the Jo’burg office still with their assurance division,
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and then I think that was also for another year or so,
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and then I moved to Standard Bank.
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Yeah, so you never left?
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I did. Ha, ha, ha.
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That's the interesting part.
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I actually left in 2014,
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beginning of 2014, for about ten months.
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Oh, okay.
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And yeah, I went to MMI Holdings and then I came back.
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What pulled you back?
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Was it a push or a pull?
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It was a pull.
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Oh, wow.
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It was a pull, luckily for me.
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The culture.
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I think with Standard Bank,
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we can complain every day around so many things that don't work,
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but I think the reason why a lot of us stay for so long, it's the culture.
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The culture is,
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it's one where if you allow it, you can grow.
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Yeah, you can grow a great deal.
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You know, I made reference to America earlier,
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and when I think about American banks as an example,
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I’m actually glad that I never worked for one, and not really
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because of the culture of being abrasive, but
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because the American bank culture
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actually matches my real personality a lot,
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and I don't think I would have been
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given the opportunity to grow as a person, therefore.
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So in a culture like Standard Bank, I've managed to grow
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as a person and not be in my comfort zone.
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You know, sometimes, you know, people do perceive me
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to be aggressive for a female, and that's my natural zone,
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but in this bank, I've managed to learn to appreciate other people
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that are not like me, and I stretch myself
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to do work and to grow with those people
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and to deliver with people that are not similar to me.
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So that's what I appreciate with this culture.
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Wow, that's amazing.
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The culture has nurtured you outside your comfort zone
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and made you a better person.
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How amazing is that? Absolutely. Yeah.
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You would have been mentored by different people.
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What one lesson sustains you
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from any of the mentors that have mentored you?
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Number one,
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always try to be true to you
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and yourself as a person and your values.
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That's the one true
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lesson,
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I would say that I got.
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The very first coach
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I had when I started articles and I traced my career
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you know, along the years,
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and that's actually been the common thread
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with the mentors or coaches that I've had along the years
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where, you know, I've been made to feel comfortable
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to be myself, but with responsibility.
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Yeah.
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So, it was like I said, if you're going to choose
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to be the aggressive one, there's also consequences.
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Of course.
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Right,
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because some other people won't receive you so positively.
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So it's been a beautiful lesson,
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therefore, for me to know when it's required and when it's not.
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Yeah, I love that.
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Stay true to your values.
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Yeah, well, I have a message from one of your mentors,
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Ha, ha, ha...
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Craig Sagar.
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What I remember about Buli was her willingness to engage
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really gave her what I call a competitive advantage over the rest.
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She really managed to get both the teams
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her peers, juniors and her leadership
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to engage with her and to take the time to ensure that she developed the skills
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that she required and accepted the challenges that were thrown her way.
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And this willingness to engage really helped her with her
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client relations, and she could form
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collaborative relationships with clients
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rather than the sometimes antagonistic
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relationship that audit members of teams have with clients.
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She was always willing to accept challenges and her ability and willingness
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to pass on what she had learned to her colleagues
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also really helped her because you learn while you teach.
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And she enjoyed that.
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And I found that she was also
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one of those who lived by one of my mantras,
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which I insisted in all our teams, is that every day
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you must have some fun, at least one good laugh and learn something new.
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And that seemed to sum Buli up and her attitude to life in general.
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And that ready smile really made a pleasure to work with and well done Buli
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on your career.
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I'm looking forward to engaging in the future.
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How amazing is that? Yeah. Sorry to make you cry
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Yeah.
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Yeah, that was my first coach. Wow.
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Very first coach in my career.
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So obviously he's retired now
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because he was quite senior in years, even at the time,
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he was probably my dad's age when I started my career.
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But what I really appreciated with Craig was just that he was different.
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Yeah.
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He was different to an audit partner, and I loved that.
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One could call him a maverick.
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He just did things differently.
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And like I remember, you know, when you worked with him,
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you know, on a client assignment, he would walk into a room
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and just want you to sit next to him and be like, “Tell me about this job.
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How's it going?”
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Before he reviews any audit files,
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and that, for me was just an exceptional skill
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because from the conversation he would pick up so many things about
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that assignment.
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And, he’s right.
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That's one of the things I learned from him to learn while you're leading others,
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and that is something that I hold very dear.
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I strongly believe that people that are below you
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I strongly believe that people that are below you
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can be smarter than you, and that's okay
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because their action makes you shine, and you also learn through them.
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That's amazing.
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He practices ubuntu.
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He was humane.
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He saw the human being in you.
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And how amazing is that?
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Yeah. Yeah.
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What in your view, we have gender inequality, as you know.
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What in your view, would actually help us to change the status quo
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and have more women in leadership position
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as women leaders and men leaders?
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What, in your view, can be done?
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So I'll start with male leaders.
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Yeah,
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I think it's very important for males to be supportive of females
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in the corporate environment, because whether we like it
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or not, it's still very much a man's world in corporate.
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And so to have a male that supports a female
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and is willing to actually
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invest time in helping her grow,
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for me, I believe that is actually invaluable
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because as you start your career as a female, there's
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certain boardrooms that you don't sit in as well.
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And so to have a male figure who is senior in the organisation
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that is able to speak about you in those boardrooms that you don't sit in,
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it's actually very credible to his colleagues,
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and people now start to suddenly want to work with you
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because they are hearing about this Bulelwa,
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you know, and you get more exposure that way.
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So for me, that's very important that men do need to be supportive of females.
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They need to be part of the female agenda in corporate.
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And then for us females, it's important
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not to be too comfortable being the first and the only.
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We can't be too comfortable with that.
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We need to be able to bring others up with us.
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One of the things I said earlier is that my passion is people.
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And so when I engage with females,
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junior females especially, I really make a point
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to make sure that they feel good about themselves when I engage with them,
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identify things about them that are their strengths,
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because I believe that they can never be another Bulelwa,
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however, you can be the best, Jessica,
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so if I identify the great things
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about Jessica that make her a great person and I talk about those things,
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I harness those skills, when I engage with her, then she's always,
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you know, energised, to do better and to harness that skill about her.
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So that's what I believe I do best,
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and that other female leaders should learn to do more of,
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and in that way you actually have other females that support you every day.
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You know, you can actually call on Jessica anytime
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when you need support or advise, with that skill that she has, you know,
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so in that way, she's brought along as well in that journey and she grows as well.
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That's amazing.
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We do know that you have mentees because one of them has sent something for you.
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Let's hear from Omphemetse Setshogwe.
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I started working closely
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with Bulelwa when she was the CFO
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for global markets and I had joined the Africa Regions team
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and she has been such a huge pillar of support for me.
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If there's one person who I can honestly say,
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they show up for me, it would be Bulelwa.
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During the most critical points in my career.
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She's helped me work through a lot of noise, given me perspective,
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and contributed so much to the person I have grown into.
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She's helped me focus on what is important and given me so many pearls of wisdom.
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I appreciate the time she has invested in me.
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She has celebrated my successes with me and supported me during
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my biggest challenges, be it personal or work wise, I honestly see her as my work
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big sister, a role model
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and a phenomenal leader. Thank you for everything that you've done.
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Bulelwa.
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Wow.
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I feel like clapping,
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Ha, ha, ha...
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well done.
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Well done.
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What would you say
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to your 20 year old, knowing what you know now?
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Sho!
19:06:
Knowing what I know now, what I would say to my 20 year old is
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it is okay not to be a fighter for everyone.
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It's okay to know that sometimes
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that battle is not yours to fight
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And live with that. Yeah.
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And be content. Yeah. How do you unwind?
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Ha,ha,ha...
19:30:
Sho!
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A lot of things.
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Sho, wow, I...
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a part of me is a creative, right?
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So I read, I sing.
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I can't wait to hear you singing.
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I do Pilates.
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I've just picked up golf as well,
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and I spend time with my kids and my husband.
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We're a family that really loves laughing,
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so we laugh a lot about the silliest of things.
20:06:
You know, it could be a child saying a word incorrectly,
20:11:
you know,
20:12:
my daughter could be saying Alona,
20:15:
and we laugh about that because that's one of her friends names,
20:18:
you know,
20:19:
and so that's that's what we do as a family.
20:22:
We laugh a lot, and we don't have to be out there doing a particular activity,
20:29:
we make fun in our space as well.
20:32:
That's amazing. Do you have a bucket list?
20:35:
Ha, ha..
20:36:
Not really.
20:37:
Not really.
20:38:
I haven’t constructed one, but yes there’s things that I do have in mind
20:43:
that I’d like to do.
20:44:
Yeah, are you happy to share one?
20:47:
I'll share one.
20:49:
I am very, very much
20:52:
looking forward to one day traveling to Turkey and Israel.
20:56:
Oh, wow!
20:57:
I believe those two countries
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are spiritual birthplaces.
21:02:
And for me,
21:05:
going there and just checking some of the apostles
21:10:
that we've learned about, saints that we've learned about in the Bible
21:13:
would be just those goosebump moments.
21:18:
So I’d really love to do that one day.
21:20:
Yeah.
21:21:
Yeah, I pray that you tick that bucket list soon, but well done.
21:27:
Thank you.
21:28:
You've done well, lifting as you rise and you show what's possible
21:35:
to a 20 year old mtata a ten year old,
21:38:
you know, and I wish you everything of the best.
21:41:
It was an honour to meet you and have a chat with you.
21:43:
Thank you, Bulelwa.
21:44:
Thank you.
21:45:
I feel honoured to be in your presence, to be honest,
21:48:
and thank you for making it so easy.
21:51:
Thank you. And your humility really appreciate it.
21:54:
Thanks Bulelwa.
