|
00:10
|
Welcome to the Standard Bank CIB,
Why She Leads podcast. |
|
00:15
|
My name is Judy Dlamini
and I will be your host. |
|
00:19
|
Standard Bank CIB, in this series, |
|
00:22
|
showcases powerhouse dealmakers |
|
00:27
|
who just happened to be women. |
|
00:29
|
It's women that can stand their own
anywhere in the world, |
|
00:33
|
but choose to be at Standard Bank. |
|
00:36
|
It's women who are inspired to inspire. |
|
00:40
|
And today, I have the pleasure |
|
00:43
|
of chatting to the Head of Strategy Enablement
in the global markets, |
|
00:49
|
Bulelwa Tetyana-Madonsela, |
|
00:52
|
welcome, Bulelwa. |
|
00:54
|
Thank you. |
|
00:54
|
It's such an honour to have you today. |
|
00:57
|
It is an honour to meet you
and to have this conversation. |
|
01:00
|
Oh, great. |
|
01:01
|
Two barrels? |
|
01:03
|
Ha, ha, ha.. |
|
01:05
|
Do you always use two barrels? |
|
01:07
|
So, the Tetyana surname |
|
01:10
|
I use here
within the walls of Standard Bank. |
|
01:13
|
Yeah. |
|
01:14
|
And mainly
because I've been here for 15 years, |
|
01:18
|
Wow! |
|
01:19
|
so my career has really grown |
|
01:22
|
within this organisation |
|
01:23
|
as a Tetyana, |
|
01:26
|
and I got married to Madonsela |
|
01:30
|
while I was here at the bank. |
|
01:32
|
And so I just really wanted to |
|
01:35
|
still maintain
that identity within Standard Bank. |
|
01:39
|
But outside of the Standard Bank,
I'm actually just Madonsela. |
|
01:42
|
Oh, okay, that's interesting. |
|
01:45
|
It's quite interesting because I have
that option of double barrelled, |
|
01:49
|
and I use my dads surname, |
|
01:51
|
and when they say I'm a feminist,
I'm like, no, I'm just choosing |
|
01:55
|
one man’s surname over another man's surname. |
|
01:58
|
There's no women there, so,,, |
|
02:01
|
I absolutely agree. |
|
02:02
|
And married with three kids? |
|
02:05
|
Yes. |
|
02:06
|
Oh, and how is that, the juggling? |
|
02:10
|
It's actually been |
|
02:12
|
a lot of effort. |
|
02:15
|
It's been a lot of effort,
we’re a blended family |
|
02:19
|
because you probably could tell
because I got married |
|
02:23
|
while I was here, yet
I was here for 15 years. |
|
02:26
|
Eldest is 19, |
|
02:27
|
so the 19 year old is from my husband's
first marriage, |
|
02:31
|
and the 12 year old is from my husband's
first marriage, |
|
02:35
|
and so I had one child
from my first marriage as well. |
|
02:39
|
So having a blended family has been |
|
02:42
|
one hell of work. |
|
02:46
|
And then being a career woman. |
|
02:49
|
And... but for me, family is so important, |
|
02:53
|
and it's the one thing
that actually grounds me. |
|
02:56
|
Yeah. |
|
02:56
|
I am very deliberate
in all the different personas |
|
03:03
|
that I actually encompass. |
|
03:05
|
Yeah. |
|
03:05
|
So I'm a person that likes to be present
whenever I'm in a particular persona, |
|
03:11
|
so at home I am wife, |
|
03:14
|
I am mum, full on. |
|
03:16
|
Yeah. |
|
03:17
|
But at work, |
|
03:18
|
I am a colleague, |
|
03:20
|
and I've just been privileged |
|
03:24
|
to be able
to have the right support system |
|
03:27
|
that when I'm at work
I don't get distracted with money issues. |
|
03:31
|
Yeah, that's amazing. Hats off to you. |
|
03:33
|
That's a lot of juggling. |
|
03:35
|
It's not just your mainstream juggling. |
|
03:38
|
If you didn't become a banker, |
|
03:41
|
I know your background is accounting. |
|
03:43
|
Ha, ha.. |
|
03:44
|
I know quite a few accountants
that I'm related to. |
|
03:47
|
What would you be? |
|
03:48
|
because the choice is so wide. |
|
03:50
|
If I wasn't a banker, wasn't
an accountant, |
|
03:54
|
I'll be in performing arts. |
|
03:56
|
Oh, are you kidding me? |
|
03:57
|
Not at all. |
|
03:59
|
Okay, that's your second career, then. |
|
04:02
|
I don't know, |
|
04:03
|
I think right now, |
|
04:05
|
well, in fact, since I was young, I do it |
|
04:08
|
rather
for recreational purposes, rather than, |
|
04:13
|
you know, some form of income for me. |
|
04:16
|
I find it really gives me energy. |
|
04:20
|
I love singing. |
|
04:22
|
I love drama. |
|
04:24
|
I'm also good at art, |
|
04:27
|
so that's what I would have pursued. |
|
04:31
|
But I mean, I'm sure, you know, back then |
|
04:34
|
our parents were not so supportive
of those type of careers. |
|
04:38
|
So I had to choose a career
that made sense, |
|
04:41
|
and I happened to also be good
in accounting. |
|
04:46
|
Well, I'm foretelling that
you will have it as a second career |
|
04:50
|
post-retirement,
because people don't retire now. |
|
04:53
|
Yeah, people don't retire, |
|
04:56
|
however, interestingly |
|
04:58
|
for me,
my real passion, though, is people. |
|
05:02
|
Yeah. |
|
05:03
|
Even though I love performing
arts, people are my true passion |
|
05:06
|
and that is like living my second career,
people. |
|
05:10
|
Oh, I love that, |
|
05:11
|
and global markets
means there's a bit of travelling. |
|
05:17
|
If you had to choose |
|
05:18
|
another country to be in and live there, |
|
05:22
|
what country would that be? |
|
05:24
|
and why? |
|
05:24
|
I'll probably choose two. |
|
05:27
|
Oh, okay. |
|
05:29
|
And I'm assuming you're referring |
|
05:31
|
to Africa rather than outside of Africa? |
|
05:34
|
It's up to you. |
|
05:36
|
I'm quite lenient. |
|
05:39
|
Okay, then, |
|
05:41
|
if it was Africa, I would choose Kenya, |
|
05:46
|
in Nairobi, |
|
05:48
|
and if it was outside of Africa,
it would most likely be England. |
|
05:53
|
Okay, and why? |
|
05:56
|
Kenya, |
|
05:58
|
I just... |
|
05:59
|
I feel like Kenya's very similar
to South Africa. |
|
06:03
|
The people are also very similar
to South Africa. |
|
06:06
|
So when I engage with the people, |
|
06:08
|
you know, within the bank
that are from Kenya, very, very similar. |
|
06:12
|
So I think that adjusting would be easy, |
|
06:14
|
number one. |
|
06:15
|
Number two,
I just also love the East African culture. |
|
06:21
|
I think it's |
|
06:22
|
so rich and there's so much
that is in common |
|
06:26
|
with the Southern African culture,
actually, the East Africans, |
|
06:30
|
but the mere fact that I am
Nguni, I do believe that |
|
06:34
|
we were all once Bantu,
which are from East Africa. |
|
06:38
|
So that's what attracts me to Kenya. |
|
06:41
|
That's interesting. Yeah.
And then England. |
|
06:44
|
I just. |
|
06:45
|
I love the corporate vibe in London. |
|
06:50
|
I really do. |
|
06:51
|
I find it it's not as brutal |
|
06:55
|
as America is,
because America can be very abrasive, |
|
07:00
|
but England is really, it's
corporate, it's cut-throat, |
|
07:05
|
but there's, there's some sensibility |
|
07:08
|
with it rather than the U.S. |
|
07:12
|
Oh, thats interesting, okay. |
|
07:15
|
You've been here for 15 years, |
|
07:18
|
let's walk down memory lane. |
|
07:20
|
You came in here, |
|
07:22
|
was it the first job or you? |
|
07:25
|
Oh, wow. |
|
07:26
|
No, it wasn't.
Okay. |
|
07:28
|
So I was trained at Deloitte |
|
07:31
|
as an accountant, and then I decided |
|
07:34
|
to stay on after my articles
as an audit manager. |
|
07:37
|
So that was my first real job
as an audit manager at Deloitte. |
|
07:39
|
So that was my first real job
as an audit manager at Deloitte, |
|
07:42
|
and I worked in the Durban office
for a year |
|
07:45
|
and then I moved to the Jo’burg office
still with their assurance division, |
|
07:50
|
and then I think that was also
for another year or so, |
|
07:55
|
and then I moved to Standard Bank. |
|
07:56
|
Yeah, so you never left? |
|
07:58
|
I did.
Ha, ha, ha. |
|
08:01
|
That's the interesting part. |
|
08:03
|
I actually left in 2014, |
|
08:06
|
beginning of 2014,
for about ten months. |
|
08:09
|
Oh, okay. |
|
08:10
|
And yeah, I went to MMI Holdings
and then I came back. |
|
08:14
|
What pulled you back? |
|
08:16
|
Was it a push or a pull? |
|
08:18
|
It was a pull. |
|
08:20
|
Oh, wow. |
|
08:20
|
It was a pull, luckily for me. |
|
08:24
|
The culture. |
|
08:27
|
I think with Standard Bank, |
|
08:29
|
we can complain every day around
so many things that don't work, |
|
08:34
|
but I think the reason why a lot of us
stay for so long, it's the culture. |
|
08:40
|
The culture is, |
|
08:41
|
it's one where if you allow it,
you can grow. |
|
08:46
|
Yeah, you can grow a great deal. |
|
08:48
|
You know,
I made reference to America earlier, |
|
08:52
|
and when I think about American banks
as an example, |
|
08:55
|
I’m actually glad
that I never worked for one, and not really |
|
08:59
|
because of the culture
of being abrasive, but |
|
09:02
|
because the American bank culture |
|
09:06
|
actually matches my real personality
a lot, |
|
09:10
|
and I don't think I would have been |
|
09:13
|
given the opportunity
to grow as a person, therefore. |
|
09:16
|
So in a culture like Standard Bank,
I've managed to grow |
|
09:21
|
as a person and not be in my comfort zone. |
|
09:24
|
You know, sometimes,
you know, people do perceive me |
|
09:27
|
to be aggressive for a female,
and that's my natural zone, |
|
09:32
|
but in this bank, I've managed to learn
to appreciate other people |
|
09:37
|
that are not like me, and I stretch myself |
|
09:40
|
to do work and to grow with those people |
|
09:44
|
and to deliver with people
that are not similar to me. |
|
09:48
|
So that's what I appreciate
with this culture. |
|
09:50
|
Wow, that's amazing. |
|
09:53
|
The culture has nurtured
you outside your comfort zone |
|
09:58
|
and made you a better person. |
|
09:59
|
How amazing is that?
Absolutely. Yeah. |
|
10:08
|
You would have been mentored
by different people. |
|
10:12
|
What one lesson sustains you |
|
10:15
|
from any of the mentors
that have mentored you? |
|
10:18
|
Number one, |
|
10:20
|
always try to be true to you |
|
10:23
|
and yourself as a person and your values. |
|
10:27
|
That's the one true |
|
10:31
|
lesson, |
|
10:32
|
I would say that I got. |
|
10:34
|
The very first coach |
|
10:35
|
I had when I started articles
and I traced my career |
|
10:39
|
you know, along the years, |
|
10:41
|
and that's actually been the common thread |
|
10:44
|
with the mentors or coaches
that I've had along the years |
|
10:48
|
where, you know,
I've been made to feel comfortable |
|
10:51
|
to be myself, but with responsibility. |
|
10:56
|
Yeah. |
|
10:56
|
So, it was like I said,
if you're going to choose |
|
11:00
|
to be the aggressive one,
there's also consequences. |
|
11:03
|
Of course. |
|
11:03
|
Right, |
|
11:04
|
because some other people
won't receive you so positively. |
|
11:08
|
So it's been a beautiful lesson, |
|
11:10
|
therefore, for me to know
when it's required and when it's not. |
|
11:14
|
Yeah, I love that. |
|
11:17
|
Stay true to your values. |
|
11:19
|
Yeah, well,
I have a message from one of your mentors, |
|
11:23
|
Ha, ha, ha... |
|
11:27
|
Craig Sagar. |
|
11:29
|
What I remember about Buli
was her willingness to engage |
|
11:33
|
really gave her what I call
a competitive advantage over the rest. |
|
11:39
|
She really managed to get both the teams |
|
11:41
|
her peers, juniors and her leadership |
|
11:45
|
to engage with her and to take the time
to ensure that she developed the skills |
|
11:50
|
that she required and accepted
the challenges that were thrown her way. |
|
11:54
|
And this willingness to engage
really helped her with her |
|
11:59
|
client relations, and she could form |
|
12:01
|
collaborative relationships with clients |
|
12:04
|
rather than the sometimes antagonistic |
|
12:08
|
relationship that audit members of teams
have with clients. |
|
12:13
|
She was always willing to accept
challenges and her ability and willingness |
|
12:17
|
to pass on what she had learned to her
colleagues |
|
12:21
|
also really helped her
because you learn while you teach. |
|
12:25
|
And she enjoyed that. |
|
12:27
|
And I found that she was also |
|
12:30
|
one of those
who lived by one of my mantras, |
|
12:33
|
which I insisted in all our teams,
is that every day |
|
12:36
|
you must have some fun, at least one
good laugh and learn something new. |
|
12:40
|
And that seemed to sum Buli up
and her attitude to life in general. |
|
12:46
|
And that ready smile really made
a pleasure to work with and well done Buli |
|
12:51
|
on your career. |
|
12:53
|
I'm looking forward
to engaging in the future. |
|
12:55
|
How amazing is that?
Yeah. Sorry to make you cry |
|
13:00
|
Yeah. |
|
13:02
|
Yeah, that was my first coach.
Wow. |
|
13:05
|
Very first coach in my career. |
|
13:07
|
So obviously he's retired now |
|
13:11
|
because he was quite senior in years,
even at the time, |
|
13:14
|
he was probably my dad's age
when I started my career. |
|
13:19
|
But what I really appreciated with Craig
was just that he was different. |
|
13:24
|
Yeah. |
|
13:25
|
He was different
to an audit partner, and I loved that. |
|
13:28
|
One could call him a maverick. |
|
13:31
|
He just did things differently. |
|
13:35
|
And like I remember,
you know, when you worked with him, |
|
13:40
|
you know, on a client assignment,
he would walk into a room |
|
13:44
|
and just want you to sit next to
him and be like, “Tell me about this job. |
|
13:48
|
How's it going?” |
|
13:50
|
Before he reviews any audit files, |
|
13:53
|
and that, for me
was just an exceptional skill |
|
13:57
|
because from the conversation he would
pick up so many things about |
|
14:01
|
that assignment. |
|
14:03
|
And, he’s right. |
|
14:05
|
That's one of the things I learned from him
to learn while you're leading others, |
|
14:09
|
and that is something
that I hold very dear. |
|
14:13
|
I strongly believe that
people that are below you |
|
14:13
|
I strongly believe that
people that are below you |
|
14:18
|
can be smarter than you,
and that's okay |
|
14:21
|
because their action makes you shine,
and you also learn through them. |
|
14:25
|
That's amazing. |
|
14:26
|
He practices ubuntu. |
|
14:28
|
He was humane. |
|
14:29
|
He saw the human being in you. |
|
14:31
|
And how amazing is that? |
|
14:33
|
Yeah. Yeah. |
|
14:35
|
What in your view,
we have gender inequality, as you know. |
|
14:40
|
What in your view, would actually help us
to change the status quo |
|
14:46
|
and have more women in leadership position |
|
14:49
|
as women leaders and men leaders? |
|
14:52
|
What, in your view, can be done? |
|
14:56
|
So I'll start with male leaders. |
|
14:59
|
Yeah, |
|
15:01
|
I think it's very important
for males to be supportive of females |
|
15:05
|
in the corporate environment,
because whether we like it |
|
15:09
|
or not, it's still very much
a man's world in corporate. |
|
15:14
|
And so to have
a male that supports a female |
|
15:21
|
and is willing to actually |
|
15:23
|
invest time in helping her grow, |
|
15:26
|
for me,
I believe that is actually invaluable |
|
15:30
|
because as you start
your career as a female, there's |
|
15:34
|
certain boardrooms
that you don't sit in as well. |
|
15:38
|
And so to have a male figure
who is senior in the organisation |
|
15:43
|
that is able to speak about you
in those boardrooms that you don't sit in, |
|
15:49
|
it's actually very credible
to his colleagues, |
|
15:53
|
and people now start to suddenly
want to work with you |
|
15:56
|
because they are hearing about this Bulelwa, |
|
15:59
|
you know,
and you get more exposure that way. |
|
16:02
|
So for me, that's very important that men
do need to be supportive of females. |
|
16:08
|
They need to be part of the female agenda
in corporate. |
|
16:12
|
And then for us females, it's important |
|
16:17
|
not to be too comfortable
being the first and the only. |
|
16:22
|
We can't be too comfortable with that. |
|
16:25
|
We need to be able
to bring others up with us. |
|
16:28
|
One of the things I said earlier
is that my passion is people. |
|
16:31
|
And so when I engage with females, |
|
16:36
|
junior females
especially, I really make a point |
|
16:41
|
to make sure that they feel good
about themselves when I engage with them, |
|
16:45
|
identify things about them
that are their strengths, |
|
16:49
|
because I believe
that they can never be another Bulelwa, |
|
16:53
|
however, you can be the best, Jessica, |
|
16:58
|
so if I identify the great things |
|
17:00
|
about Jessica that make her a great person
and I talk about those things, |
|
17:07
|
I harness those skills,
when I engage with her, then she's always, |
|
17:12
|
you know, energised, to do better
and to harness that skill about her. |
|
17:17
|
So that's what I believe I do best, |
|
17:20
|
and that other female leaders
should learn to do more of, |
|
17:24
|
and in that way you actually have
other females that support you every day. |
|
17:28
|
You know,
you can actually call on Jessica anytime |
|
17:32
|
when you need support or advise, with that skill
that she has, you know, |
|
17:37
|
so in that way, she's brought along as well
in that journey and she grows as well. |
|
17:42
|
That's amazing. |
|
17:43
|
We do know that you have mentees because
one of them has sent something for you. |
|
17:50
|
Let's hear from Omphemetse Setshogwe. |
|
17:54
|
I started working closely |
|
17:57
|
with Bulelwa when she was the CFO |
|
18:00
|
for global markets
and I had joined the Africa Regions team |
|
18:06
|
and she has been such
a huge pillar of support for me. |
|
18:10
|
If there's one person who I can
honestly say, |
|
18:13
|
they show up for me,
it would be Bulelwa. |
|
18:17
|
During the most critical points
in my career. |
|
18:19
|
She's helped me work through
a lot of noise, given me perspective, |
|
18:23
|
and contributed
so much to the person I have grown into. |
|
18:28
|
She's helped me focus on what is important
and given me so many pearls of wisdom. |
|
18:33
|
I appreciate
the time she has invested in me. |
|
18:36
|
She has celebrated my successes
with me and supported me during |
|
18:39
|
my biggest challenges, be it personal
or work wise, I honestly see her as my work |
|
18:45
|
big sister, a role model |
|
18:47
|
and a phenomenal leader. Thank you
for everything that you've done. |
|
18:51
|
Bulelwa. |
|
18:52
|
Wow. |
|
18:54
|
I feel like clapping, |
|
18:55
|
Ha, ha, ha... |
|
18:57
|
well done. |
|
18:58
|
Well done. |
|
19:01
|
What would you say |
|
19:02
|
to your 20 year old,
knowing what you know now? |
|
19:06
|
Sho! |
|
19:06
|
Knowing what I know now,
what I would say to my 20 year old is |
|
19:11
|
it is okay
not to be a fighter for everyone. |
|
19:17
|
It's okay to know that sometimes |
|
19:20
|
that battle is not yours to fight |
|
19:23
|
And live with that.
Yeah. |
|
19:24
|
And be content. Yeah. How do you unwind? |
|
19:28
|
Ha,ha,ha... |
|
19:30
|
Sho! |
|
19:32
|
A lot of things. |
|
19:34
|
Sho, wow, I... |
|
19:37
|
a part of me is a creative, right? |
|
19:41
|
So I read, I sing. |
|
19:46
|
I can't wait to hear you singing. |
|
19:49
|
I do Pilates. |
|
19:51
|
I've just picked up golf as well, |
|
19:55
|
and I spend time with my kids
and my husband. |
|
19:59
|
We're a family that really loves
laughing, |
|
20:02
|
so we laugh
a lot about the silliest of things. |
|
20:06
|
You know, it could be a child
saying a word incorrectly, |
|
20:11
|
you know, |
|
20:12
|
my daughter could be saying Alona, |
|
20:15
|
and we laugh about that
because that's one of her friends names, |
|
20:18
|
you know, |
|
20:19
|
and so that's that's
what we do as a family. |
|
20:22
|
We laugh a lot, and we don't have to
be out there doing a particular activity, |
|
20:29
|
we make fun in our space as well. |
|
20:32
|
That's amazing. Do you have a bucket list? |
|
20:35
|
Ha, ha.. |
|
20:36
|
Not really. |
|
20:37
|
Not really. |
|
20:38
|
I haven’t constructed one, but yes
there’s things that I do have in mind |
|
20:43
|
that I’d like to do. |
|
20:44
|
Yeah, are you happy to share one? |
|
20:47
|
I'll share one. |
|
20:49
|
I am very, very much |
|
20:52
|
looking forward to one day
traveling to Turkey and Israel. |
|
20:56
|
Oh, wow! |
|
20:57
|
I believe those two countries |
|
21:00
|
are spiritual birthplaces. |
|
21:02
|
And for me, |
|
21:05
|
going there
and just checking some of the apostles |
|
21:10
|
that we've learned about, saints
that we've learned about in the Bible |
|
21:13
|
would be just those goosebump moments. |
|
21:18
|
So I’d really love to do that one day. |
|
21:20
|
Yeah. |
|
21:21
|
Yeah, I pray that you tick that bucket
list soon, but well done. |
|
21:27
|
Thank you. |
|
21:28
|
You've done well, lifting as you rise
and you show what's possible |
|
21:35
|
to a 20 year old mtata
a ten year old, |
|
21:38
|
you know, and I wish you everything
of the best. |
|
21:41
|
It was an honour to meet you
and have a chat with you. |
|
21:43
|
Thank you, Bulelwa. |
|
21:44
|
Thank you. |
|
21:45
|
I feel honoured to be in your presence,
to be honest, |
|
21:48
|
and thank you for making it so easy. |
|
21:51
|
Thank you.
And your humility really appreciate it. |
|
21:54
|
Thanks Bulelwa. |
