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Welcome to the Standard Bank CIB Why She Leads Podcast.
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My name is Judy Dlamini, and in this series, Standard Bank highlights
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women powerhouses who lead within Standard Bank.
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With me, I have the Chief Operating Officer for Transaction Banking,
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Ashleigh Pledger. Ashleigh, welcome.
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Thank you.
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It's such an honour to meet you and I look forward to our conversation.
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22 years, right?
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It's a long time. It is.
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But it does seem like you having fun within Standard Bank.
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You started off as an admitted attorney.
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How has the change been from being an attorney to being a banker?
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That change actually only happened fairly recently.
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I only took up the COO role in CIB Transaction Banking
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at the beginning of last year and it was mind blowing.
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But what I definitely realised was the legal skills
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that I had developed over the years actually stood me in good stead.
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And you know, lawyers can read,
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we can absorb the detail
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and we can manage and juggle various balls.
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And I think that's quite a helpful skill to have.
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So the transition and,
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you know, I have an amazing team and I have a very supportive boss,
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and there's wide tolerance for
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and encouragement, for the different ways of engaging with different reflections.
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So actually, it was a very kind process.
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It was actually really, like you say, fun.
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There's some power in this legal background.
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Yeah,
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and I think it's your legal training actually gives you,
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and Sim actually said it and he highlighted it.
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He says the ability to manage at a strategic level
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the high level, and then to dive down deep into the detail,
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and lawyers have to be able to, you know,
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run that spectrum of where you need to operate.
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So it definitely does stand you in good stead.
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It's amazing then, how over 22 years,
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how has the culture evolved for you within the bank?
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So I was reflecting that I've actually grown up in the bank and
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and I think
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coming in from practice as it then was, was quite
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adversarial, very, you know, almost combative.
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You must remember the lawyers are there to articulate and to win
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whatever case it is that they have.
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And one of the biggest reflections for me coming into
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our bank was just the warmth
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and just how everything
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was configured to support and to treat you like an asset,
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not as a liability and to help you reach your full potential.
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And so it's an open invitation
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to grow up here, make your mistakes.
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And I've certainly made my mistakes.
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There's been a lot of smoothing of some of the rougher edges,
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but I really appreciate the, you know, the ability that I've had to
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to grow with the organisation and to be where I needed to be.
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Sometimes, like I was saying, you know, you want to
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you know, pedal to the metal and you go in hard, and then
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other times you just need to lift the pressure a little bit
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when you're transitioning, you're having children,
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if you maybe studying and the organisation has got a lot of flex built into
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to allow you to do that.
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That's amazing
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because as an outsider looking in, you always think banking,
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financial services is so hard, it's so macho, it’s actually not nurturing,
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but you are actually saying it actually is the opposite.
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Absolutely,
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and I think that has been the case over those 22 years.
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And that's not to say that you don't have highs and lows,
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you know, you will have times and I call them golden eras where
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you have a team and an era of people that you're moving
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through the organisation with,
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and it's just really special times, and
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you have other times
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people move, people change, and maybe it's not as golden,
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so you have, you have the more rewarding times,
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you know, over those long 22 years, it can't be nirvana every day.
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No, It couldn't be like that every day. No, exactly.
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It's not that much of a bubble.
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Yeah.
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It really feeds, I think, across all the human dimensions.
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If it's your technical,
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if it's your personal development, your interpersonal skills,
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there’s every kind of support
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or encouragement to take up any of those initiatives
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and to evolve and follow your dream and where it is that you need to
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take your life to.
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But those options just have to be taken.
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You know, they're not served on platters.
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Yeah.
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You have to stand out as being a candidate
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that the investment in your development is, you know, worth it.
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So it's
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and it's not a one day game.
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I think, you know, it can look intimidating from the outside
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because you just think you come in and you operate there.
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But that wouldn't be fair.
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That would be setting people up for failure.
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So you come in and you find your path,
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and all the initiatives and support are there.
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And obviously what's really good is if you have a line manager,
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you have a team and the combined win, if everybody's winning, you know,
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the team, the business, the bank, the continent, everybody benefits.
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And that's actually the ideal, so,
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you know, in this day and age, I think it's a it's a tough world,
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it’s volatile world.
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And I think it's an organisation that aspires
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to bring out the best in humanity, for the common good.
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And I think that's the really powerful thing.
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Maybe our countries,
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our leaders, our global leaders,
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maybe there’s some of them falling short, you know, role modelling.
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And, you really have to respect an organisation
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that really tries to do right, by the world at large and by its people
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and obviously her her clients.
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No, definitely,
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it says... it gives us a very good picture that you've been here
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for more than 20 years and you still feel the way you do.
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I'm sure you have mentors that you had along the way.
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Definitely,
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and I love that I know who those people are,
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when I find myself quoting them, you know, as I go about my day to day
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and just, you know, my first principal in practice,
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he always said,
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“Read your papers Ashleigh.
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You must read your papers,
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people don't read”.
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So just building and fostering that sense for applying your mind,
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doing your best,
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putting your best foot forward.
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And sometimes it's not perfect, but it's, you know,
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just really giving fully of yourself and committing to doing things
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to the best of your ability, I think is a great differentiator.
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And then my first line manager at the bank was an amazing lady as well.
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And she had a whole lot of just sound common sense,
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practical ways of doing things
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that to this day she laid a foundation and a legacy
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that we reaped the rewards from for many, many years afterwards.
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And I still look today
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across some of our areas in transaction banking.
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And I'm like, wow,
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you know, you guys missed out on somebody like that.
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Just giving you that solid introduction and foundation into the organisation.
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You know, we keep aspiring and trying to
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to pay it forward
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all of the benefits we've had.
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And then, yes, I've had some really fun leaders
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over my time in the organisation, people that really supported and backed,
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you know, me and, you know, some of the struggles I was going through,
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my team.
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And they just kind of put their what do they say?
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Put your arms around your team
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and just look after your team and I will look after you.
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And that was all I needed.
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That's great.
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I actually have a message from one of your mentors, Claire Denny,
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That was my first line manager.
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So here goes.
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This is the letter from her to you.
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It's funny, I only met you a few minutes ago,
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but I can feel that warmth,
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that just draws you in and you start chatting and you can’t stop.
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How do you motivate your team?
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Those connections are important.
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Nobody wants to be a number and just arrive, not be seen,
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not be appreciated and not be valued.
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So for me, I find it so important that people that are entrusted
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with the care of others, which is what your line managers are,
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there's a huge responsibility on them to foster that connection
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that people need to feel
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to the organisation
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and what we're trying to achieve, and to each other.
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So if you're not fostering that, if you don't give people a sense
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of belonging and value
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for their contributions, they disengaged.
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So for me, building a team is like building a family.
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You know, it's nurturing and constantly building those connections.
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And obviously, you know, it's a high performing environment, so
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we need people that are invested and want to reach their full potential, want to
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just see where their paths take them
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and where they going and what opportunities come up.
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So when you have that magical combination,
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it's actually unbelievable what you unleash.
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So for me, teams are about creating connection
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and intimacy, support
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and you move forward together.
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And I always say, you know, I love that
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we bask in, you know, if somebody does well, we bask in your reflected glory,
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so uplifting and celebrating each other.
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It's so healthy.
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If you've got a healthy human ecosystem,
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there's no limit on what you can achieve.
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You know, back 30 years ago, in my world,
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you spoke about diversity,
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then it's moved, diversity and inclusion.
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Then it became belonging also.
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And you add the ‘you matter’ element, as a leader
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you show the people that you lead, that they matter
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and, yeah, that's why you've been so successful.
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I have no doubt that you've mentored a lot of people
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based on what you've said, how many people you are mentoring now?
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If you are able to say that.
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There's the mentoring that you do as part of your daily,
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you know, engaging with your team, your direct team formally,
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then there's some people that will approach you for mentorship
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engagements and initiatives.
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There's quite a couple of those,
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you know, I have
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Shimiso in the SA team I have Tersia also in our
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TXB, SA team.
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I connect,
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I connect a lot with people.
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So, and I prefer it that way to formal mentoring, you know, because then
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we need to be clear about what do we want to achieve after the mentoring.
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What is the, the leveling up that the person is looking for.
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So I find, theres... mentoring is compulsory
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once you get to a senior level because you do need to be harvesting
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and investing back into the people
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that are your people that you journey with.
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Yeah. Lift as you rise. Yeah.
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Yeah, I love that, I do love that.
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Actually, I think there's a message from one of your mentees.
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That's amazing
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and I wish we could have more of that
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because we always say women should mentor others and open the doors
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and send that ladder back so that someone else could come, you know.
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So, yeah, well done in that space.
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When you started here, you had just got engaged.
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So you've got married here and two kids later
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you're still here and are continuing to rise.
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What would you say to a 20 year old
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who has just finished,
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okay, she is quite bright because she just finished that
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junior degree and she's looking at all the options that the world has to offer.
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What would you say to her?
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I would say, don't waste the opportunities
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that will be presented here, and put your best foot forward every day.
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Do not just skim the surface.
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You have to go in 100% and you will not believe
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what the organisation and what will come back to you.
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In fact, you know, always find the opportunities, find those.
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This is what opportunity looks like.
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You know, those that put their hands up and put themselves forward and just
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are generous.
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They are generous of spirit.
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They give of themselves and they give of their skill and they give of their time.
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So don't hold back.
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It's really important just to be you
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and to back yourself.
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And it's hard for a 20 year old, you know, a young person to do that.
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But I just find
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I love that there's a quote and I'm probably going to get it wrong,
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but it's like, just be yourself because everyone else is already taken.
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Ha, ha, I love it.
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And who's got time to manufacture a persona.
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So just be the best version of you,
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and even sometimes it's a bit messy, but that, you know,
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if you're always willing to learn, accept your mistakes,
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learn from them, and try not to repeat them.
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That's all anybody ever asks.
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That's so true.
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And that's what parents are supposed to say to their kids, actually.
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You can only be the best version of yourself.
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If someone didn't know you and they get to know you.
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What surprises do they have in store about who you are?
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I think I can come across as quite
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severe, quite intimidating.
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And I know for many years, and I don't know if it was coming
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out of the legal field, you can sometimes be seen as aggressive
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as opposed to assertive, you know,
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so it can be a little bit much.
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You know, people initially will be a bit, she's a lot.
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But I think once people just calm down and just,
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you know, we have an opportunity just to be and just to get on with it,
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they realise I'm definitely not there to fire any guns,
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you know, I'm there just because I want to get the job done
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and I want to get it done to the best of everybody's ability.
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So actually not so scary, I would suppose they would say.
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And I'm really not trying hard to be scary, but I think it's just,
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like you say, just from the outside looking in, people don't know you.
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They don't know what's going on.
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I'm pretty easy-going and I can't stand it when people are very rigid
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and, you know, we have to behave in a certain way,
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which is why Practice didn't really resonate with me.
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It's very formal.
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There’s certain ways to come, you know, to speak. And
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I... it didn'twork for me.
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But, you know, I find that people
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find it easy to call women leaders aggressive
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when they are assertive and assertion is reserved for men.
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So I think it's a very selective term,
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depending on who the leader is.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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What don't you like about your job?
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It's just a lot.
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It's a lot.
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There’s so many balls.
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And sometimes, you know,
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you just see all the balls dropping like, oh, those are all my balls dropping.
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I'll pick them up.
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But yet that is the biggest attractor for me,
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because it's ever changing,
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and I never have everything sewn up.
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So the challenge is constant and it's a battle
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because I'm going to get this
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figured out and aligned.
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But just as you gave one side figured it's changed and it's different,
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you know, on the other side.
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But that's what's kept me so busy and engaged.
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You just never master it. And it can be exhausting.
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But yeah, it helps when you've got amazing people to draw on.
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Yeah, just to help you.
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How do you unwind?
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Okay.
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The honest truth,
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I mean, I love reading, but actually I find it so easy to doomscroll,
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you know, and you just get sucked into your TikTok and just,
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there's so much out there,
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so for a busy mind, you know, it's lovely just to see so many different things.
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And TikTok, you can come across astrophysics and then humour and cats
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and dogs and people, but I, I do love to read
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so if I can I, I'm trying hard
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not to get, go down the social media rabbit holes
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and I like to spend time with my family chilling,
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beach time, holiday time.
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And we like to chill together so they definitely my DNA.
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Yeah.
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Yeah. That's amazing. You've done well.
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You've really done well. Congratulations.
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What does the next ten years look like?
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So I've recently ascended to the fifth floor of life,
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so I'll put it.
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Yeah.
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So we are basically we're looking at now is the time
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where I feel quite a sense of responsibility to,
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to make sure I'm putting back into the organisation that whatever
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I'm setting up will benefit the future generations and leaders coming through.
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I'm in such a happy place.
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Like I say, it just I'm busy.
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I don't have time to think about the next,
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you know and my second career, ja,
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I started you know, I do have to have a plan
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I can't arrive without a plan, so yeah, that's going to be the next 5 to 10 years.
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Yeah, well you have time,
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you've just arrived on the fifth floor.
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Those of us that are looking more towards the seventh floor, enjoy it.
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Ha, ha, yeah.
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It's been an honour to meet with you and to engage with you.
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You've done well. And congratulations.
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Thank you, Dr Judy.
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It's actually been an amazing experience.
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And really, I thank you for the messages as well.
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You know, it's so nice when you get those sound bites from you past coming back
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and just to hear that as well.
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So thank you.
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It's gone really quickly.
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Yeah, I wouldn't have thought
21:09:
Yeah, I wouldn't have thought
21:10:
Thank you, Ashleigh.
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I worked with Ash in the early days of her career.
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Besides being incredibly good technically
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two leadership traits were immediately apparent.
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Firstly, her strength of character
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and secondly, the connections she found with people.
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She had a wonderful warmth and sense of humour that just drew you in.
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I have no doubt that both traits have stood her
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in good stead as she has progressed in her career.
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It was two years ago that I felt that I had reached a glass
25:20:
ceiling and in advancing my career, I reached out to Ashleigh at that
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time to ask if she would be willing to share her guidance and advice with me.
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Ashleigh not only was willing to share insights with me,
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but whole hearted, and it took to continue mentoring me on a longer term basis.
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Over these two years, her guidance has not only placed me
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in the ideal position to take advantage of the next steps in advancing my career,
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but has also helped me in overcoming other challenges
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that were preventing me from achieving my stretch goals.
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I'm very grateful to Ashleigh for being so generous with both her time
25:57:
and sharing her wealth of experience, especially in our corporate environment
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where both time and knowledge sharing are scarce commodities.
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Not only have I learned from Ashleigh but this has placed me in a position
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where I'm able to pay this forward to other people that have approached me
26:13:
for similar guidance.
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I very much look forward to continuing this journey with
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Ashleigh’s valuable guidance.
