00:10:
Welcome to the Standard Bank CIB Why She Leads podcast.
00:16:
My name is Judy Llamini and I will be your host.
00:21:
In this series,
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Standard Bank CIB shines the spotlight on powerhouse dealmakers.
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These are women who can stand their own anywhere in the world, but they choose to
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be with Standard Bank CIB.
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They are inspired to inspire.
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And today,
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I have the privilege and honor to have a conversation with Ashia
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Jobodwana.
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She is the Executive Head of Transactional Banking for Public Sector.
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that's a big client welcome ashia thank you so much dr judy lovely to be here
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actually i'm looking forward to our
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conversation same here it's an honor to have you and it's not a hot seat trust me
01:14:
it's just a chat you know i i looked at your your profile and
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i wondered why you decided to go straight into the industry
01:27:
of your choice and not save articles and do all those auditing things.
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Why?
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Wow.
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I guess I'm going to have to start with my story of my high school to get to that for
01:40:
you to understand.
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So I didn't have the privilege of going to a multiracial school, unfortunately.
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So I started in a township in a small town called Mbegwini in Pal,
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where I went to school at Desmond Piloto High School.
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While I was in school, I mean, a lot of the things I always say, I always joke
01:59:
about this,
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even in accounting was taught in Xhosa.
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You know, everything was taught in their home language.
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But I was determined to excel because I wanted to get out of the township.
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It was my ticket out of the township to go to school.
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Fortunately for me,
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Ernestine Young came to the school to look for disadvantaged background children that
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they can sponsor going to university.
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And I was lucky enough to be one of the students who was chosen that year to be
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sponsored by Ernestine Young to study at the
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University of Cape Town doing my accounting which is what I was good at at
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the time so I did a Bicom accounting in
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there.
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While I was I was studying I had opportunity to also work so I didn't have
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vacations.
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Every holiday I had to come up to Joburg and work at the Ernestine Young offices
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serving articles and of
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course the the CAs that were the working for the company so I was an intern in it
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for the lack of better word
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and with that experience I think
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I quickly learned that my personality and auditing were not gelling.
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I did not enjoy having to walk into these companies and feel like a school principal
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trying to see what have you done where did the money go
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and etc etc I wanted to be more on the opposite of what's happening here what are
03:19:
you guys doing so I realized I'm going to be in trouble if
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I stay in the industry which is auditing at the time.
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And yeah, I applied for the graduate program in my final year.
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I was accepted by Standard Bank and so they were willing to buy me out.
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And yeah, the rest is history.
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That's how I joined Standard Bank.
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I joined the graduate program and I left the auditing world behind.
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You talk about humble beginnings,
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but you had the guts to tell a sponsor that you're not feeling this direction.
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What is it?
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Is it assertiveness?
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Is it understanding exactly what you want and going for it?
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What is it?
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I think it's a little bit of both because even now I think in my work I do have
04:03:
quite a lot of assertiveness.
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And even in my own personal life, if I don't feel something is for me, it is not
04:08:
for me.
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And I will speak up and raise that.
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And also I got to be independent at a very young age, coming from a really previously
04:16:
disadvantaged family.
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I applied for my own.
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varsity, I applied for my own varsity.
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I didn't have people helping me to do that.
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Right?
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It really does make you more independent and really being clear about what is it
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that you want to do for yourself.
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And so yeah, I think over time, it's just been the fiber of my of me that I do speak
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up if I'm not happy with
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something.
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If this is not the direction that I want to go, I would definitely say it and say
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this is not this is not for me.
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It's a good quality to have.
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So you've been here forever, like?
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only work for a standard bank.
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I know, which is quite interesting because you know what you want.
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You stay when you're happy.
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So it means you know why you're here still.
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If you had to choose to go somewhere else in terms of sector,
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what sector would you go to and why?
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Sure.
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I've been with public sector for a long time.
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I started to say after moving from finance, this is a sector that I moved
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into as a transactional banker.
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So I always say I'm a civil servant at heart.
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Government is in me.
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I've done other things in the bank.
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I've moved on to card division but found myself back into public sector again as
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the relationship manager for the sector and now
05:39:
heading up the sector.
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But certainly, I mean I'll be lying if I say I don't think about what my next would
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be or what other sectors would I like to be exposed in.
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If you look at government it's very closely linked into infrastructure and
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that's why I'm taking a bit of a liking now
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and reading a lot about what's happening in the infrastructure and also it's very
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it goes hand in hand.
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When there's no investment by government in infrastructure, infrastructure goes no
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way, right?
06:06:
You do need the government.
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So that is the sector I think I'm thinking about and wanting to move more into and
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make an impact on.
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Yeah, it's just a nice collaboration.
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That's interesting.
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You've gone further, actually, and you started the Women Forum.
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Tell me about it.
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Yeah, so I was, I mean, it's not something I started, but I raised my hand to run it.
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So I'm...
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Throughout my career, when I started to bring in transactional banking,
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I actually joined what we used to call diversity and inclusion back then.
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We now call it DEIB.
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It's a very long acronym, but it's about diversity, inclusion, equity and
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belonging.
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So now we call it DEIB.
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And every business unit of the bank has that, each area.
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So I started joining it and in there,
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I needed to find this part of this forum that way I can make a difference.
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Again, I looked around, there were aspects, there was disability, there was,
07:02:
you know, race issues,
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there were different aspects of the forum, but I knew women empowerment is where
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I have a passion for and wanting to know again, you know, how can we empower the
07:13:
women in the business development, the women in the business.
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So even back then I raised my hand to say, can I run the stream of the forum, which I
07:20:
was allowed to do that.
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And we did great work, just maybe starting because I was still young.
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that time as well myself i wasn't a senior leader in the business but it was about
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exposing some of the senior women to us as the young women
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in the business to get their stories to hear how they came became to where they
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are what is it that we can learn from them so
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i've grown with that now i am heading up the the woman forum for our business unit
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where really we cover
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everything wellness issues that touch women again we still you can never expose
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enough women who've done great things in the business
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today incoming women in the business so that they can see there's a future in the
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business.
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We still cover a lot of that as well.
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We did a financial one not so long ago.
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I mean, it's known that as women, we know how to make money, but maybe we don't know
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how to spend it or invest it to grow it for us.
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So those are the kind of things we look at and we try and bring to the business.
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That's what I'm leading currently for my business.
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Before I move away from women,
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what will it take to have all the top five?
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banks in the country run by women and more presidents of
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countries being women in the continent.
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Let's dream, what would it take?
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There are certain things that we should be doing or we don't do enough of as women.
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One, raising our hands for the roles that we want.
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Be that firm to say I want mom Judy's job, right?
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What does it mean?
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What is it would it take for me to be in that role?
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to be developed to be in that role right we don't do a lot of that versus our male
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counterparts they're very bold about
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what is it that they want and how to negotiate to go about negotiating for it
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we need to be more like that as women as well
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i try to say i don't believe it but it's in there i can't deny it you know the
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queen bee syndrome we also still need to deal with that i'm seeing
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less and less of it i think women are getting it now but we did have a queen bee
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syndrome um for over time where i'm
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the first i'm the only one you know, why should I bring other women on board?
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There's ways we can make sure we mobilize, you know, other women or even our male
09:30:
counterparts to support us to grow.
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So I felt like it's a bit of an excuse, but, you know, you can't dismiss
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somebody's views around those things.
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So there are certain things that we can do.
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I think the third one, really, even the book that I enjoy a lot, which is Lean In,
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spoke about it,
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that we tend to make even plans for ourselves way before.
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Even things happen, right?
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An example of that was...
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As a woman, yes, you want to start a family and you get offered a very senior
09:58:
role.
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You start thinking, but if I take this role, I won't have time for my family.
10:01:
Then you literally decline the role.
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Those are the things the book talks about that, you know what, if the business unit
10:07:
area really wants you,
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they will understand when you have to take time off to go start a family and you come
10:13:
back and do what you need to do.
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And so we need to stop overthinking it and just go for those roles.
10:17:
That's amazing.
10:18:
Moving swiftly away from that topic that you're passionate about.
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In your view, what is a virtue that is most underrated,
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both in leadership and in relationships, personal relationships,
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business relationships?
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So maybe let me relate to, I was having a meeting with somebody today, personal
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meeting,
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where she was relating her story to me.
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And she kept on saying to me, the one reason why I came to speak to you is
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because...
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It's amazing how we don't understand that empathy and godly leadership is the reason
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some of us get
11:01:
attracted to certain leaders and want to go and come in and talk to you.
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And so one of my bosses in the bank had a lot of empathy and people thought he was
11:09:
soft because of that.
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Because again, you're supposed to be driving bottom line, tough and all of
11:14:
that, you know,
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why are you allowing somebody to come and tell you that they're going through a
11:19:
divorce and that's why they can't deliver.
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But he made it a point that, you know.
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the higher you go and you always used to say this to me by the way he's one of my
11:28:
mentors now the higher you go your people
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leadership is more important than your technical leadership because you've hired
11:36:
people below you that they can do the job right
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you need to be accessible for the other things i need to be able to come to you
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and say you know i'm going through something this
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is why maybe i cannot be able to deliver on this etc etc and you know you so that
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empathy and i think we still see it
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as a soft thing in business or it's a sign of i'm weak if people come and speak to me
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about their problems and
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accept and all of that it we
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underrated in terms of how we can buy you loyalty from your people you know how
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people
12:05:
can know that you know this is a leader that i can go and speak to about anything
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and everything and i was one of those people for that
12:14:
leader that i'm like you i need to deliver for this guy i can't disappoint him
12:16:
so if i i felt like that it would be great to know that the people that i lead will
12:20:
feel like that as well to say
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As much as I'm going through something and I know I can speak to her, but I know I
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also need to make this leader look good because they listen to me, etc.,
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etc.
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So we underrate that.
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I couldn't agree with you more.
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It is so underrated.
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Even in personal relationships, you know, it's love, love, love, but just empathy,
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kindness, you know.
12:46:
You spoke out of mental.
12:50:
There is someone who has a note for you.
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You might know her, Zen Jamini.
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Oh, yes.
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Yeah.
12:57:
So we'll play that.
13:00:
Well, I've known Asha for over a decade.
13:03:
And wow, it actually feels like a lifetime.
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Asha is tenacious.
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She oozes confidence.
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She's resilient and very authentic.
13:16:
You know, what you see is what you get.
13:18:
She doesn't.
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flip-flop and change.
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And most importantly, I love, love the fact that Asha has integrity.
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She has such a strong moral compass and commitment.
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I guess this is something that is very big and shows her strong value system,
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delivering results,
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looking after a very big team.
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And we knew, you know, like every other weekend, we knew that
13:45:
um they're hosting clients you know that um they've got um some initiatives that
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they are pushing and she was in the forefront as a
13:54:
true leader i know she's got a strong personality and she will ask the questions
13:59:
we would have loads and loads of debates and she'd
14:01:
ask why and i would give her all the answers she wants facts um
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she wants um empirical evidence you can't just do a pie in the sky you know there's
14:11:
no pie in the sky with asha because she's
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the person that speaks with conviction as she sits in these committees and she sits
14:18:
in these forums and she learns.
14:20:
As you show her and then you explain to her, she sees like the best practices,
14:23:
but she learns from that and then she comes back and then she will ask.
14:27:
She's eager to have the best education.
14:30:
She's did her masters because she's always eager to grow.
14:33:
She'll do various interventions as she believes that education,
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it empowers you and it doesn't make her.
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be this arrogant person that thinks that they know everything but instead um she
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would always be the modest asha that we know
14:51:
it's very strong on mentorship it should say to me zany we should invest in the
14:56:
growth and development of others that's always
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great she says that about the team she says that about colleagues um across
15:00:
the board so that is a big thing for her and women empowerment for her women
15:07:
empowerment stands out
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i've seen that and i don't know how many mentees that she's got But I know that she
15:15:
supports, she supports all the way.
15:17:
Also amazed at the empathy that Asha demonstrates.
15:21:
Asha is one of the very few people that I know.
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We'll stand at the traffic light, you know, she's on the traffic light, there's
15:30:
a guy sitting there with a cardboard written there,
15:32:
I've got a degree but I can't get a job.
15:33:
Asha is one of the people that will actually take a picture of that cardboard
15:40:
and circulate that to the various tribes
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WhatsApp groups to say that, help a folk who's looking for a job with a degree,
15:45:
guys let's lend a helping hand because that's who she is.
15:48:
She always lends a helping hand, understands the needs and feelings of her
15:52:
team.
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and making sure that people are okay, people are not worse off.
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She seeks feedback all the time, and we always say feedback is for champions, so
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that makes her a champion,
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I guess.
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It's been a great journey watching Asha grow.
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I know that she will continue soaring,
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and she will continue thriving from the streets of Powell to an executive in the
16:19:
corporate
16:19:
investment banking in South Africa.
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And going across the various regions that we've got, I can just say, Asha,
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I can't wait to continue celebrating you because you are definitely a
16:36:
force to be reckoned with and you are inspired to inspire, as we say.
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That's so special to hear from your mentor.
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I couldn't agree with you more.
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It makes you the leader that you are.
16:52:
I have to tease out something because of your experience.
16:56:
In this country, we have a lot of, the percentage is very high,
17:01:
of women households, women-led households, right?
17:07:
So you have young women or girls and boys that don't have a father figure or even
17:14:
just a
17:14:
male figure.
17:15:
You are raised by your grandmother and your mother.
17:18:
What can you say to that child?
17:22:
at PAL, Guguletu,
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or anywhere else in this country who actually are facing the same dynamic to
17:30:
say
17:31:
how will they achieve in life,
17:34:
what should they focus on because we do tend to focus on what we don't have rather
17:40:
than what we have.
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What should you say?
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Look
17:46:
I think I mean if I look at also my own background is there's a way out right
17:50:
If you really are focused and you can see the stories of the people who've also come
17:57:
from humble beginnings,
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but look at where they are now.
18:01:
Why can't that be you?
18:03:
Right.
18:05:
But don't lose hope.
18:07:
Somebody out there is going to notice you.
18:09:
Ernestine Young noticed me at school.
18:11:
Amongst, you know, I was in a previously disadvantaged school.
18:12:
They came looking for me and they found me.
18:15:
And I always say they came looking for me because I was the only student who was
18:19:
given that pass that year.
18:21:
and somebody will notice you and give you the chance but my thing is that when you
18:25:
get given that chance you need to run with it
18:27:
you need to run with it with your with your life and make something out of it i
18:33:
was so anti-social in
18:35:
university in my first year because i'm like i'm here on a bus i can't be out on
18:40:
the parks i can't mess up you know when my
18:42:
friends are like are we going out i'm like no i need to study because i knew why i'm
18:47:
there and i knew this is my only way out chance right so i grabbed
18:49:
it and i ran with that opportunity And so I think for me, those are the two things
18:53:
that, you know, keep doing what you're doing,
18:55:
keep on being focused, you know, keep on, you know, doing your best.
18:57:
Somebody is going to notice.
18:59:
And when you do get the chance, you gotta, you gotta grab it.
19:03:
That's amazing.
19:04:
What do you do for fun?
19:08:
Well, um, I always say I'm probably one of the most balanced people that I know,
19:13:
because I work hard during the week,
19:15:
but I say even start a bank knows.
19:15:
Friday, when I'm done, I do not touch my laptop unless I have to.
19:21:
If I have to think about it, so I do spend a lot of time with my husband.
19:25:
Of course, we have date nights every Friday. That's what I look forward to
19:29:
every Friday.
19:31:
That's me just unwinding, letting him into what my week looked like and, you know,
19:36:
how hectic it was, et cetera, et cetera.
19:38:
So I look forward to that.
19:39:
That's just my Fridays just for that.
19:42:
Saturdays I really, I do socialize a lot.
19:45:
Yes, I do have a lot of friends where we catch up and have lunch etc.
19:48:
But if I'm not doing that, I'm catching up on Korean series.
19:53:
That's one of my favorite things to watch.
19:55:
I watch quite a lot of those Korean series.
19:56:
They're quite amazing.
19:57:
The storylines are quite amazing and you end up feeling like you understand the
20:02:
language actually.
20:04:
Also very highly spiritual.
20:05:
I'm very clear even to my circles that My Sundays are for me and my God to not
20:11:
invite me to anything.
20:13:
I'm not going to come because that's just my time, my downtime to just catch up with
20:17:
my God,
20:19:
read up what I need to read up on, watch what I need to watch.
20:21:
I've recently taken up golf.
20:23:
I've been spending a lot of time in the golf course.
20:26:
Now, my Friday afternoons before date night, I'm constantly in the golf course
20:30:
practicing.
20:32:
Yeah, and it's actually helping a lot to also sometimes just...
20:34:
relieve the stress to go hit the balls and I'm enjoying it.
20:38:
That's amazing.
20:39:
Does your husband play?
20:40:
Very well.
20:41:
He's a big golfer as well.
20:43:
Was that the influence or the bank?
20:45:
No, actually the bank.
20:47:
Actually, it started with a bank.
20:50:
There was a call to say, we need a few women to start playing.
20:53:
We've got a lot of golf days in the bank and there's never enough women who
20:57:
participate.
20:59:
And also I got tired of declining clients' invites.
21:00:
where they invite you to a golf day.
21:01:
I'm like, but I don't play golf.
21:03:
I was like, actually, why not?
21:05:
Yeah.
21:05:
So it was more the banks, of course, than anything.
21:07:
My husband won't even play with me.
21:09:
He's very clear that until I get to a certain handicap, that's the only time
21:14:
we'll play together.
21:16:
He's quite snotty, right?
21:18:
So I'm not there yet.
21:20:
Yeah, yeah.
21:22:
Where are you from here?
21:24:
Well, I mean, I've got quite a lot of things I still like to achieve in the role
21:26:
that I'm in.
21:27:
I've been only in this role for two years now.
21:29:
Still very new for me.
21:32:
There's a lot to learn.
21:33:
And I mean, as I said, there's other sectors I'd like to be exposed to, you
21:39:
know, you don't want to be known as a government person forever as well.
21:41:
So there's definitely a lot of scope of still learning where I am in the business.
21:45:
But ultimately, I mean, I always say I love the sales space, I love the
21:51:
relationship management space.
21:53:
I'm definitely in the right place to grow into the space.
21:54:
I'm the head of public sector, there's a head of sales across.
21:57:
Why not his role?
21:59:
Why not in future be the next state of sales who looks after the entire mining
22:05:
industry, different other sectors,
22:07:
not just public sector.
22:09:
So there's quite a lot of growth that's there for me in the business.
22:10:
That's good.
22:11:
What's in your bucket list?
22:14:
Sure.
22:15:
Traveling to Greece at some point in time.
22:18:
Yeah, I was supposed to travel sometime this year.
22:20:
It's just we had quite a lot at work, so I couldn't travel.
22:23:
But I'd love to do that.
22:27:
You know.
22:28:
We're not getting any younger.
22:30:
We are talking about starting a family with my husband, so I'm looking forward to
22:35:
how that will turn out as well.
22:37:
Yeah.
22:39:
And yeah, just being a happy person altogether and being content,
22:40:
that's for me is more important for me right now.
22:43:
Yeah, I think the matriarchs did a good job because you focus on the right things.
22:50:
It really is about being happy.
22:52:
It's about caring for the next person.
22:55:
And you've done so well.
22:57:
And Umakulu must be looking down with pride.
23:02:
And congratulations on the journey thus far.
23:05:
I can't wait to see where it takes you.
23:08:
But it was such an honor to meet you and chat to you.
23:12:
Thank you.
23:13:
Much appreciated.
23:15:
Thank you so much.
23:16:
Thank you.
23:16:
It's lovely.
